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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jun 19, 2010 - 12:01am PT
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Jaybro-
Just about everything on Fall Wall seems to be a sandbag. How about Fear and Loathing at 5.9+? Even "5.11 Crack" has defeated lots of good climbers and is "only" a 5.9+.
P.S.: Vedauwoo was my "home area" for 4 years of Grad School in Laramie.
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Chief
climber
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Jun 19, 2010 - 12:09am PT
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Ditto for the DNB formerly at 5.9/10b.
Horrendous both times.
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Inner City
Trad climber
East Bay
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Jun 19, 2010 - 12:20am PT
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Kevin,
73? Heck I thought everything was 5.9 back then..
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 19, 2010 - 12:23am PT
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High five brokedown! Vedauwoo itself is a grad school that helps you view many things in a different light. at least it's worked that way for me....
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mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jun 19, 2010 - 12:29am PT
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Friday night after beer rant warning.
Fat Dad is exactly right. Reed's and Quicksilver are both totally mid-5.9. Not sandbags at all. Hardly any moves on Reed's are more than 5.8 even - it's the continuity that makes it 5.9. Since when was 5.9 meant to be an easy climb? So the NEB of Higher Rock is supposed to be rated 5.12c because there's a lot of burly 5.8 and even a tiny bit of 5.9? Harden the f*ck up, some would say (just kidding).
True enough, there are some old ratings that were B.S., such as the DNB, for years, being regarded as having six 5.9 pitches but none harder. Pretty much, when that stuff was first done, if the climbers were totally maxed out, it was rated 5.9. But it didn't take that long for clarity to emerge. If we all turn in to such wusses that p.1 and 2 of Reed's have to be upgraded, they should just dam the Valley and make another Hetch Hetchy, the human race is done for.
There are individual pitches that are total sandbags (1st of DNB is every bit of 5.9 - real 5.9 like Reed's), but if you are getting on a 5.10/5.11 climb and one of the 5.7 pitches is a bit harder, you can't whine sandbag.
And the Wide is unratable. Ahab, Generator, L. side of Slack (I hear) would probable garner 5.11 or 12 ratings in most places, I guess, but it's just such unique stuff in the Valley that it doesn't matter.
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Mimi
climber
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Jun 19, 2010 - 12:55am PT
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It is the Yosemite decimal system. The routes are rated accordingly.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Jun 19, 2010 - 01:15am PT
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Reed's is barely a stiff .8 compared to some other valley classics. Try playing on some of the "easy" base routes on the captain.....everything is sand bagged until you can start doing hard .10's and .11's. Or the wonderfully greasy 5.6 after six...or higher cathedral spire or...or....every area has it's own unique style that takes some getting used to. I've done some moderate routes in Red rocks that I thought were harder then any Valley classic...They weren't, but it just depends on what you are exposed to as your norm.
Donner summit has a few classic problems from Hudon that might actually be a "Little" sandbagged....But that was the nature of Donner climbing.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 19, 2010 - 01:19am PT
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The sandbag.
Just see. You should be happy you've sand bagged.
It gives you something to talk about instead of drooling in front your computer screen ......
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 19, 2010 - 02:08am PT
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The problem with that, Mimi , besides the the fact that the 'Yosemite Decimal system' is really from Tahquitz, is that the ratings are inconsistent. They always will be, but this, hopefully, is an attempt to reign them in, a little
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 19, 2010 - 02:23am PT
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As grades are totally subjective anyway, I generally use the ADGS - The Anders Distinctive Grading System. Works for me.
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ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
California
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Jun 19, 2010 - 03:12am PT
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Any Kohl route... sandbagger, haa haaa!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 19, 2010 - 09:11am PT
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Forget the rating. A climb is what it is, climbs are not changing organisms, they are timeless, static entities. The climber is the variable regarding mood, style, conditioning etc. You can either do the climb or you can't.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jun 19, 2010 - 09:12am PT
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A lot of how we each interpret things depends on the individual build--I'm a fairly heavy guy, a shade under 195 pounds, but have a great "ape index."
I tend to do well on climbs that are less than vertical, but because of my power-to-weight ratio, overhanging routes seem to be super difficult. Long reaches don't bother me too much. I also have a thick chest, so tight squeezes= Arrgh!
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bob
climber
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Jun 19, 2010 - 09:22am PT
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Jim, with all due respect and I mean that sincerely, climbs are changing things. Nothing on this Earth is timeless. It all changes. In my mind that's the horror and the beauty of it all. Rocks break down the remnants move. Didn't someone just post about a boulder problem at Castle Rock that just broke a major large chunk of stone off of it to change it forever? The Earth moves and changes and we've been doing that along with it.
With that said, I think know what you mean, especially from a human's timeframe. A climb is a climb and is what it is to whoever it is to. Blah blah. coffee is kickin in and my Lyme fog is wearing off, or is it?
Bob Jensen
PS I know its not the Valley, but up on Lembert Dome (yeah Lembert Capt'n!!!!!!!!) there is a route called Sandbag and its 10b. Go climb it and tell me if you think its sandbagged. (tuolumnemeadows.org)
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jun 19, 2010 - 10:15am PT
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//There are individual pitches that are total sandbags (1st of DNB is every bit of 5.9 - real 5.9 like Reed's), but if you are getting on a 5.10/5.11 climb and one of the 5.7 pitches is a bit harder, you can't whine sandbag.//
Yeah, that was really wierd watching the complete mental collapse of someone who I know is a strong, well rounded climber, the kind of guy you'd bring on something like Iron Hawk to lead to way run face pitches up top. Moody though. I even offered to take the sharp end but he wanted to pout instead. Just too big of a mind f%$k for him thinking the thing was 5.7 and that it should have felt like 5.7. A really off day I guess.
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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Jun 19, 2010 - 11:27am PT
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Jaybro:
Never been to Veedauwoo and from what I learned from all of the parking lot talk it was probably a good thing-those routes sounded pretty fierce.
Doesn't Reeds have a crack inside the crack that you you can reach for? I remember reading something like that (P.Livesy?)
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Seriously, Man, I didn't know she was Your sister.
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Jun 19, 2010 - 12:10pm PT
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Right on, bob.
Sandbagging is a time honored tradition.
It builds character(s).
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throwpie
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jun 19, 2010 - 01:50pm PT
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Warbler mentioned the Cleft. That was my very first real attempted climb in the valley. Cowboy Larry Moore and a few other Degnan's Dorms ner-do-wells took me there, claiming it was a great beginner's climb. Cowboy swam right up it, as was his talent in wide cracks, and I was unable to get my feet off the ground.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jun 19, 2010 - 02:11pm PT
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La Escuela
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 19, 2010 - 02:15pm PT
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Sandbagging is a time honored tradition.
It builds character(s).
Sometimes I think it's a lame ego game and a dangerous (mis)contribution to the community.
Of course, not much to complain about regarding old climbs when 5.9 was the hardest grade in the world
Peace
Karl
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