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MisterE
Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
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Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2010 - 09:53pm PT
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Bluey, your links are weak sauce.
kunlun_shan, your link rocks.
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Tobia
Social climber
GA
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a torpedo? From what a blimp? The fire was on the deck not below.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Bluey, your links are weak sauce.
kunlun_shan, your link rocks.
Because one fits your ideology and the other doesn't? By the way, mine are more based in fact that the other, by their own admission. Kulun admits it sounds like speculation!
I'm curious why you think mine are weak? The enviro-prozac-hound in the first is distubing, but...explain.
EDIT:a torpedo? From what a blimp? The fire was on the deck not below.
Where does the oil meet the air/oxygen/fuel? I'm not really justifying that theory, just helping you work it out.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Workers on the rig have said that the explosion was caused by a natural gas blowout.
As for why the shear-ram didn't work, that remains unexplained. Theories from reasonable parties include the possibility that maybe it lined up with a joint or something harder than normal pipe.
But the idea that any enviro-terror group has the bucks or the tech to mess with a well-head 5000ft down is ridiculous.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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The LA Times had a good story a few days ago about the cementing job that was supposed to close the well.
Rokjox might like the possible methane causality for the accident :-) I was surprised that no one brought this up yet.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/01/nation/la-na-oil-spill-investigation-20100501
".......After an exploration well is drilled, cement slurry is pumped through a steel pipe or casing and out through a check valve at the bottom of the casing. It then travels up the outside of the pipe, sheathing the part of the pipe surrounded by the oil and gas zone. When the cement hardens, it is supposed to prevent oil or gas from leaking into adjacent zones along the pipe.
As the cement sets, the check valve at the end of the casing prevents any material from flowing back up the pipe. The zone is thus isolated until the company is ready to start production.
The process is tricky. A 2007 study by the U.S. Minerals Management Service found that cementing was the single most-important factor in 18 of 39 well blowouts in the Gulf of Mexico over a 14-year period.
Halliburton has been accused of performing a poor cement job in the case of a major blowout in the Timor Sea off Australia last August. An investigation is underway......
........Joe Leimkuhler, past president of the American Assn. of Drilling Engineers, said it was difficult to speculate about the role of cementing in the accident. "The process to place the cement in the well is very similar from job to job, but the details that make up the risk and challenges are specific to each well. You really need the details of the well design and the formation characteristics." He added that only the companies involved have that information.
Some speculation has centered on methane pockets frozen into crystallized formations beneath the seabed that could be warmed by the cementing process and become unstable. A 2009 Halliburton presentation to the drilling engineers association described the challenges of methane hydrates, asking: "When do hydrates become unstable?" and "Will cement hydration cause this outcome?" The presentation noted that "gas release is a challenge for safety and economics."
A company spokesman declined to comment on whether methane hydrates, warmed by cement curing, may have been a factor in the gulf explosion......
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Don't get me wrong, Rokjox. Nothing funny about this at all. Its a huge disaster! Terrible in so many ways.
When I saw methane mentioned I thought it was ironic that after all the fuss you made awhile back about the risk of methane destroying the earth.....it might be a significant factor in this accident.
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Tobia
Social climber
GA
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bluey:
My criticism was aimed at the theorist; not you. In the end, the blame will be attached to many things, maybe even Toto. I doubt it will be a single source but more than likely a chain of failures.
There really isn't a way to safeguard against disaster when you are working with machinery that big, in water that deep, and the pressures of what lies below the ocean floor.
When drilling for oil pockets of natural gas are routinely hit and vented off and burned as a way of elimination.
As a person who worked in the offshore oil business, I can say that the environment and safety is not the biggest concern of the oil companies or the subcontractors. When I was out there in the 80's the habitat was all already being sacrificed. The seismic vessel I worked on regularly dumped a jet fuel - kerosene mix off the vessel; and would change directions to make the trail less likely to be seen; all this when they could have just as easily pumped it into a recovery tank.
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W. S.
Sport climber
Montana/France
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As evil as you might think all oil companies are, BP is a special case. Their business model involves buying outdated and poorly operating equipment for cheap and pumping out as much profit as possible before things literally blow up. They have a long history of corporate negligence, and when I saw that the rig was one of theirs it was not surprised.
Still, it's a huge shame and my condolences go to the families of those killed as well as everybody on the Gulf Coast whose livelihood and style of life will be so gravely affected.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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W.S. you forgot one part of their business model.
Create an "Earth Friendly" Ad campaign that features a bright new sunshiny and flowery logo.
You forgot to mention their "Teletubbie" assault on World perception.
Drill - Spill - Bill.
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xkyczar
Trad climber
denver
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As a person who worked in the offshore oil business, I can say that the environment and safety is not the biggest concern of the oil companies or the subcontractors. When I was out there in the 80's the habitat was all already being sacrificed. The seismic vessel I worked on regularly dumped a jet fuel - kerosene mix off the vessel; and would change directions to make the trail less likely to be seen; all this when they could have just as easily pumped it into a recovery tank.
I spent a lot of time offshore as well in the 80's and this may have been the attitude of many then but it certainly wasn't that of all. I saw environmentally poor practices reported by rig workers. I saw people choose more costly (but environmentally friendly) options in places where there were no or few environmental regulations.
W.S. - It was not BP's rig. I found rig quality to change more with location than with who it was working for. Bearing, Beaufort, North sea rigs were plush. Mississippi swamp jobs - not so much.
Not trying to defend BP here but the people who are the oil industry - like all industries - span the full spectrum.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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WS,
When I worked at Prudhoe Bay 25 years ago BP had a rather stellar reputation. It is possible things have changed. Interestingly, Brown & Root, since bought up by Halliburton, had a stinko rep. I don't know from diddly about drilling in the water but it is hard enough drilling on dry land. On water it seems there's a whole lot more things to go wrong and Mr Murphy will have his way eventually. The price of oil is way too low.
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Argon
climber
North Bay, CA
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May 12, 2010 - 12:53am PT
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I'm glad we had some good entries in the "Something funny please!" thread. If you've had enough laughs, check out this recent video of the oil spill:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=524_1273510578
There is obviously uncertainty over the rate of flow of the spill. That's understandable - but there seems to be a fair amount of evidence that the rate may be far higher than the official 5,000 bbls per day. Yet it seems like most all media outlets are still simply using the 5K bbl rate. At 5K per day, the total volume leaked so far stands at about 4 million gallons - almost 1/2 an Exxon Valdez. But the higher figures suggest that we're already at 2X the Exxon Valdez with no end in sight. Regardless, the video paints a pretty devastating picture.
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gumbyclimber
climber
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May 12, 2010 - 01:22am PT
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The best place to glean information regarding this ongoing disaster is both in the threads and the informative discussion in the comments section over at www.theoildrum.com
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hb81
climber
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May 12, 2010 - 03:51am PT
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I'm glad we had some good entries in the "Something funny please!" thread. If you've had enough laughs, check out this recent video of the oil spill:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=524_1273510578
That's depressing to say the least. Not that the mainstream media seem to care anymore, I've not heard a word about this ongoing disaster in a week or so on TV news. (well I'm not in the US admittedly so it might be different over there?)
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willie!!!!!
Trad climber
99827
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May 12, 2010 - 04:05am PT
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Not just you, hb81, many over here have noticed the lamestream media blackout.
This tragedy is a HUGE deal. Major implications on many levels.
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Binks
climber
Uranus
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May 12, 2010 - 12:12pm PT
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So is killing the worlds oceans a good trade for a few more years of total world oil dependence before it all crashes?
I don't think so.
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