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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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An earlier post:
The reason we Christians tend to answer with God's Word is, for one, His Word is the truth, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6. So, if He is the truth what does that make anything that I, or you, or anyone else, can come up with? That's right, lies! Anything other than God's system of management is a bunch of lies! I'm sure this will ruffle your and many other's feathers but the Bible if very clear on this. Try this on for size. Because you are not saved (I'm assuming), and to answer your question as to "you never answer the hard questions prefering instead to spew verse and line", according to the Bible (KJV) (my notations, or that of the Noah Webster's 1828 dictionary, are made in parenthesis or underlined):
"42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me (You see, Jesus IS God, in the flesh! If God came down as He is, we wouldn't be able to stand in the presence of Him, so He made himself of our image, so we could "stand" Him! God wasn't selfish, He crucified Himself!).
43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts (to have carnal desire; that which is not of God) of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." - 1 John 4:8.
Did you get that? Your spiritual father is the devil (and mine too, before I was saved)! And the "lust of your father ye will do... for he is a liar, and the father of it"! Because I now have the Holy Spirit within me, the devil can no longer "possess" me, but he can still "oppress" me (outside pressure). This is why I try not to answer of myself but instead try (key word) to rely on God's word for His is Truth!
Another reason we answer with scripture is because, "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. - Genesis 6:5 or, "For if a man think himself (my stinkin' thinkin') to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. - Galatians 6:3.
Also, according to the Bible, the reason that you think we "never answer the hard questions" is that, "He that is of God heareth God's words (you see, we ARE answering your questions!): ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."
There is so much more to God's Word and I am not claiming to be anything but a pile of dirt. El Cap, I'll say a prayer for you with hopes that one day you'll be witnessing God's Word, the Truth, to others as I have chosen to do to you this day.
I am nothing, He is everything,
Gary//
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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LET THE RELIGIOUS AND NON-RELIGIOUS PEOPLE HAVE THEIR THREADS TO THEMSELVES. IF YOU DON'T LIKE A RELIGIOUS OR POLITICAL THREADS, THEN DON'T POST ON THEM.
YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYBODY'S POLITICAL OR RELIGIOUS VIEWS BY POSTING ON THESE THREADS.
WHEN YOU ARE POSTING TRY TO WRITE AS IF YOU WERE THERE TALKING FACE TO FACE WITH PEOPLE. MOST POSTERS WOULD NEVER USE THE LANGUAGE THEY POST IF TALKING IN PERSON.
WE HAVE A GOOD SITE HERE SO LET'S TRY TO KEEP IT CIVIL. I KNOW, I KNOW, THAT WOULD TAKE A LOT OF THE FUN OUT OF IT, AND THAT IS WHY SAYING THESE THINGS IS A WASTE OF TIME... SLANDER IS A LOT OF FUN, HA HA, BUT NOT MUCH FOR MAKING AND KEEPING FRIENDS!
HOWEVER, OTHER TOPICS ARE FAIR GAME!!!
READ THE ELCAP REPORT, IT IS FULL OF SLANDER!!!
BYE FOR NOW
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Jingy
Social climber
Nowhere
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T7 - Don't have to be "sure" if I already feel I "know" something..
not even your ranting agaist anyone in this thread will get me to take second look at anything (your religion) you are attempting to force onto me.. or would that be attempting to force into me, because, after all, you are asking us/me to accpt your religion "into my life".. right? (hope this doesn't sound to.. uhm... you know... ghey)
I hope you have a great time from now until your death. On that day, when your personal movie is flashed before you, I hope that you can gain some insight into all that you believe, and can recall our discussion/rantings, and can reflect on all that it had meant... to who? Who knows.
Nothing you or I can possibly say will change a thing.
Hopefully, you no longer feel the need to prove your personal level of belief.
You start out saying that I shouldn't talk about things I know nothing about..
So I have to assume that you have gone to a 4 Year God school to become a few degrees higher in understanding, and therefore can speak lengthly on the subject that you say I should not comment on...
This type of thinking is just backwards.
T - You do not have to answer to this. I'm not expecting a response. Sit back and think of a better arguement.. I may just disregard that as well, but at least you'll have the knowledge that you have tried your best, and can finally rest.
Cheers
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Jingy my buddy.... let it go!! Fellow Atheists Pukes... let it go!!!
The first thing any con artist tries to do is get you to have a dialog with them! Then they will do what is necessary to keep you listening.
Their objective is get you to take the time to hear/read to what THEY HAVE TO SAY in hopes that they can snag you. If you don't listen/read then you can't be conned!! That is one reason I said in my previous post that you should let them have their threads to themselves.
If you walked up to one of these guys on the street and he said to you
"I have been saved by christ, please listen to my story", would you stay and listen or just say, "No thanks" and walk on?
Yes, Son, you would walk on! So..... walk on!!
What these religionists, or any con man wants is for you to listen to what they have to say... they can't convert you if you don't read what they have to say... by reading it you have taken the first step into their trap, doing exactly what they want.
I have become convinced by now that they have no interest in what you have to say, YOU AREN'T GOING TO CONVINCE THEM OF ANYTHING!! ... THEY DO NOT RESPOND WITH REASON OR LOGIC, JUST ENDLESS QUOTES OF SCRIPTURE!! THEY JUST WANT YOU TO LISTEN TO THEM. They will continue to string you along for as long as you are willing to give them the time to do it. All you will do is aggravate yourself and them too! Don't waste your time with these people. Let them have their thread!!! Victims of scams always say... "but officer he was really interested in me and seemed like such a nice young man!!!"
Jingy... have I ever lied to you? Bail now! Atheists, don't give these people a moment of your time!! All you are doing is encouraging them.
Just say No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards Tom
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WBraun
climber
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That's stupid logic Tom.
Way stupid and you should know better because in your above post you are doing the exact same thing.
You're saying ..... "LISTEN TO ME" ... too ....
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Werner... not so Bro... I am not trying to sell anything, I am simply saying that I have found that it does no good to listen to the stories and rants of these people... they just want to convert you to their beliefs.
I do not wish to convert anyone to anything. You or anyone else can believe what you wish... I just advised Jingy to not converse with people who are trying to con him.
The word "Stupid" you are using. Now Werner, I have known you for ni on 40 years and although I may sometimes disagree with what you say I would never call you "Stupid"!!!
See you next week Bro...
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Tom!
Like I have already told you, out of the 1200+ post that I have here on this site, S/T, I would venture to say that more than half have been related to the current topic(Jesus Christ). I didn't initiate the threads, or invade the threads, I simply responded like you have here. And many(hundreds)attempts on my part, to answer these hard questions which. Once again, go back to Nortons thread "Creationist take a called strike...run to dugout." and others.
It gets old, especially when your being called names and cursed at, and our Lord and Savior is being insulted and blasphemed. This is all one way of course because "Sissy Christians" don't use language like "You Fuknard" "Fuknard, Fuknard, Fuknard and a litany of other derogatory, hate, yes hate filled speech(Weschrist admitted he "hated" Christians. And of course we don't insult people with with derogatory remarks like "delusional idiots" and low IQ etc. I have a BS(Bachelor of Science)degree. And scored in the top 1% in the nation on the Analytical Reasoning IQ test. There are only two standardized IO that I know of.
SO WHAT. WHO GIVES A CRAP??
But it gets very old.
The only reason I go over and over all these same old questions that are directed at us, and then are told to "take your rants somewhere else" as if its all our fault, is to answer your questions, or to rebuke outright lies and deception! And then each and everyone of you answer with the simpleton rebuke/insult "I don't care what you believe, I don't believe in the blah, blah, blah!" You guys are the Golden Guardian Saints of Atheism and the sacred ground of S/T(censorship is alive and well here). No one ever tells you ATHEIST to knock it off/stop ranting take your religion elsewhere(for it is a religion).!
Or for that matter, any of the numerous threads about Hinduism or Buddhism over the years. They just don't effect your emotions with bitter hate and anger. Never one bit of dissent on their threads. NEVER, any request to "take their religious rants elsewhere" I wonder why? Kind of odd isn't it?
Well I will tell you why, and of course you will reject and belittle it but it is the spirit of the Antichrist, alive and well...he has you under his thumb, deceived and blind.
BTW, IT IS A ONE SIDED SLANDER FEST!!!
Because 'Sissy Christians" never....
Tom- "Slander is allot of fun..."
No it's not "allot of fun" because it is one sided/always directed at us "Sissy Christian" who struggle to "turn the other cheek."
You can ask 3-4-5 so called "hard questions" in three or four sentences, to reply to those questions requires a deep understanding of the nature of God. Which would take pages of quotes and examples to come up with a suitable explanation. And doubt if it would make any difference to an unbelieving person who is just going to come back with "I don't care what you believe...Superman, Batman yada, yada, yada."
Why bother?
Like you said "We are not going to change any ones views" so why do we bother? It takes 5-10 times more effort to answer a question than to ask it. And you guys are doing all the asking. And you may sign/say good-buy, but it is a never ending saga for us/me. There are tons of people complaining/questioning etc. after each simple Bible quote.
BTW, no offense taken, I have been thru over 40 years of debate, and persecution.
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WBraun
climber
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Trip 7
What they're really saying which you have seemed to completely not understood yet is they don't want your constant preaching here on this forum.
They're really attacking you because of your disregard to the general conscientious group that posts here and are sick of your preaching.
You're pissing em off.
This is isn't a religious forum. They wonder why the hell you don't debate in some religious forum instead of going at it here?
Do you understand?
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Jingy!
Jingy how could I "force" something on you?
I just suggested that you don't know 100%.
If that rattled your cage...WELL EXCUSE ME!
That's preposterous dude.
I also studied along side my brother who went to Bible College/Seminary. But it was of our own free will/decision to do so. I am sorry to here that you were forced to do that as a youth.
Jingy- "You start out saying that I shouldn't talk about things I know nothing about."
And please show me where I stated that! I spent the last 20 min. or so looking and I can't find/remember saying that. I would have to read it in context! Regardless, I apologize, it was the wrong thing to say.
I have no great desire to speak to you about this subject and certainly not force it upon you. Not even God Himself would do such a thing. It would be counter productive, and defeating the point.
Actually it is impossible, only you can make that decision.
I was simply pointing out that you don't know for sure 100%...PERIOD.
And making a suggestion that you could ask Him. Not "forcing anything."
Frankly I hardly know you(although I do respect what I do know for the most part).
And I to be honest I won't loose any sleep in regards to your spiritual condition. As a matter of fact, I probably will give it little if any thought from here on, as I am rather lax in doing such things as praying for the lost souls that I come across the last decade or so.
But about 25 years ago, the good Lord gave me a vision of hell(long story). And I do recall that the first prayer out of my mouth each night before I prayed for all the street kids. Most of whom had been on the streets since they were ten to twelve years old. And most of who were selling their bodies to survive(boys and girls). The very first prayer to come out of my mouth every night was "Please don't let Hell be that bad for the lost."
I guess I lost the fire so to speak.
So have a great life yourself Jingy. If we were to ever cross paths I doubt if I would even bring up JC. I rarely bring it up outside of here, except when asked. I feel as though there is little hope for America.
Have a great life yourself, we will probably cross paths. I am an amature Mtn. photographer(Mainly large format)and I plan to road trip the eastside and Valley etc. extensively in years to come. I will recognize you, and you can be absolutely sure i will say nothing.
Peace be with you Jingy.
P.S. You never answered my question in regards to you also considering Tobin to be be delusional? Did you guys attend the same Bible College?
BTW, there is nothing "ghey" about asking Jesus Christ "into" your life!!
And...it wasn't just for you that i made the suggestion(I doubted that it would register)but there are hundred's perhaps thousands that read these threads!!
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kbstuffnpuff
Sport climber
State of Confusion
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God made weed so god is good. Because weed is good and god made it.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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The only real question here is, if there is a god and a heaven and a hell, which circle of hell will TripL7, gobee and their co-conspirators end up in?
First Circle (Limbo)
Second Circle (Lust)
Third Circle (Gluttony)
Fourth Circle (Avarice and Prodigality)
Fifth Circle (Wrath and Sullenness)
Sixth Circle (Heresy)
Seventh Circle (Violence)
Eighth Circle (Fraud)
Ninth Circle (Betrayal)
They seem to fit in several, at least according to Dante. Dante unsurprisingly found that most of the overtly religious ended up in hell.
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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I used to teach my Physics students that perpetual motion machines were impossible.... but I must have been mistaken... T7 seems to be a perpetual posting machine. Post on Bro... this is after all, a bible thread. But remember, even god had to take a day off!
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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WB!
I am fully aware of that dude! But look at my posts, they are for the most, answers to the questions posed to me.
I posted a couple of Bible passages here and get 5-10 rants/questions from 10-15 characters. I am polite enough to answer.
The same with the other posts!!
They initiate some thread or pose questions and request rebuttal so i simply answer one and get numerous questions!!
Are you suggesting that I am doing something wrong?? Hardly, just simply responding like everyone else.
So what, if they can't handle the truth...don't ask the "hard" questions then.
EDIT: I put one(1)verse on here a week ago on Sunday. And it had been 3-4 weeks prior to that since I posted here.
And didn't put another one until(2 days ago)this last Sunday(a total of 2 verses)and all HELL breaks out. These dudes just can't handle Bible verses.
Like I said up-thread "I shake the dust off my feet" in regards to this thread"!
You just couldn't stand to see those three words "Favorite Bible Passages" once or twice a day...
Well good luck everyone!
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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"I like the ones promoting slavery- Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT for example.
doniniTrad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 4, 2010 - 10:07am PT
And then there are the ones condemning homosexuality: Genesis 19:5, Leviticus 18:22, 20:13 and Romans 1: 26-27.
doniniTrad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 4, 2010 - 10:10am PT
Nearly forgot the passages promoting murder: Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT, Exodus 22:17, Leviticus 20:13.....et al.
doniniTrad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 4, 2010 - 10:17am PT
Finally, a couple with Jesus promoting theft: Matthew 21:12, Mark 11:2."
I still feel these verses need some clarification...
It's too bad "donini" didn't also consider the other verses in Romans chapter 1 that provide the proper context for verses 26 & 27. He should have started with verse 18, declaring that "the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold (literally, suppress) the truth in unrighteousness." God does not apologize for the circumstances that brought other nations under the dominion of Israel (which resulted in either the execution or the kinder alternative of slavery for those who were taken captive), nor does He apologize for subjecting Israel to slavery when they mimicked the nations in their ungodliness, even sacrificing their children to false gods (not unlike America's false god of convenience, abortion). And He certainly does apologize for declaring that homosexuality is morally vile and will surely be judged as such. In Israel's infancy as a nation beheld by all other nations as a showcase of God's holiness, God was unequivocal about the death sentence for those engaging in behavior that would spread like a plague of rebellion in the nation of Israel.
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go-B
climber
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Psalm 96, Oh sing to the Lord a new song;
sing to the Lord, all the earth!
2 Sing to the Lord, bless his name;
tell of his salvation from day to day.
3 Declare his glory among the nations,
his marvelous works among all the peoples!
4 For great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised;
he is to be feared above all gods.
5 For all the gods of the peoples are worthless idols,
but the Lord made the heavens.
6 Splendor and majesty are before him;
strength and beauty are in his sanctuary.
7 Ascribe to the Lord, O families of the peoples,
ascribe to the Lord glory and strength!
8 Ascribe to the Lord the glory due his name;
bring an offering, and come into his courts!
9 Worship the Lord in the splendor of holiness;
tremble before him, all the earth!
10 Say among the nations, “The Lord reigns!
Yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved;
he will judge the peoples with equity.”
11 Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice;
let the sea roar, and all that fills it;
12 let the field exult, and everything in it!
Then shall all the trees of the forest sing for joy
13 before the Lord, for he comes,
for he comes to judge the earth.
He will judge the world in righteousness,
and the peoples in his faithfulness.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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jesus just wants to chill today.
and mull over eternity with a glass of 4000 year old wine.
maybe two glasses. and if the buzz strikes him between the fears, perhaps infinite glasses. cause he's jesus. and HE can handle his booze.
lets leave him be for the moment.
quit bludgoning his name and misunderstanding his idea.
please go wrap your minds around a wandering stick. which etches a path divergent to the sin that is stupified complacency.
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Jingy
Social climber
Nowhere
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here's a question:
Just what exacatly did your god give us?
His son, right? This could be the common answer,though I have no idea what all you who know 100% about theological studies will provide...
Then, the humans on earth killed gods son...
Then, he (the son) stepped out of the ground, rising from the dead...
Only to be wisked away, off to heaven, back by the gods side.. for eternity.. (though most of you may feel that ends are near)...
So what did he give us?
As this is the story provided in the book, I have to wonder...
That would be no loss to the god, no loss for the son..
And now the god sits, with his son by his side, and watches you unintelligent humans bicker over what it all means.
And to that end I offer another question:
Why are we humans always seeking some kind of cosmic meaning in things, in everything?
Who says that a tree in a forest hold meaning?
The ant crossing a sidewalk, that gets stepped on holds some kind of meaning for some of you, right? Or are you waiting to be told what the meaning is by the one who put the ant there in the first place, after you die... (do you really think you will be told the meaning of anythying outside of your own life once you die?)
It's a neverending circle.
Also, defaulting to intelegent design just becuase you have no idea what the answer is does not hold water for me.
Evolution holds water, makes sense, and has stood the test of time, all in a simple form.
There is no god.
Cheers all
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Edit: I just read the previous post and I Just got back from midweek service. It couldn't have been more appropriate for this forum. This is for Christians and the unbelievers as well. Recall how many years ago this was written:
2 Timothy 4
1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
6For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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It seems fit that someone with the pen name "illusion dweller" should be posting pro-religion tracts.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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To answer the question as to what God gave, is summed up in one verse...
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
You believe, you spend eternity in heaven. You don't believe, you spend eternity in heLl. Why take the chance?
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