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jstan
climber
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I have not been following JT R/E closely of late but during the foreclosure boom I had the feeling property in Landers was getting back down near its pre-boom valuation. In areas closer to the Park one house originally priced at 1.4 sold recently for .85. Realtors are once more sending letters asking if people want to sell. With the mess we are heading into, it is beyond me why anyone would want to get out of real assets.
If you go further out into East Mojave the country is wonderfully empty. There has to be some part of that not Federally owned.
Zzyzx is too far though.
Possibly even here I am being prejudicial. Maybe a weekend away in beautiful downtown Barstow would be cool.
OK. Poor choice of words.
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tm510a
Trad climber
Joshua Tree ca
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#1. The gate or lack there of consist of a hunk of 2x4 a piece of my old climbing rope and a piece of webbing that looks like Warren Harden used it on the first accent of El Cap. This SCREAMS "Welcome Tweaker's" . The Pit is lucky that a climber lives across the street and not a NIMBY.....
#2. I think it would be a good idea to get all the climbers,campers to skip a beer and dinner at Cross Roads and pony up some cash go to Home Depot and buy 2 8ft swing gates , 2 gate post a Private Property sign and 2 bags of ready mix. I have a post hole digger. Then with the help of everyone that camps there we can have that gate up as quick as you can climb walk on the wildside......... If the entrance looks nice the tweaker's will stay away........
Tony
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brian benedon
Trad climber
tucson
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Apr 17, 2010 - 06:19pm PT
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dear authority man
this is how it went down;
took 2 days off work and drove 6 hours to satisfy a crack habit. recently adopted a stray dog, wanted to do some bonding with the pooches. figured there would be an open camp site mid week, there was not. no big deal, same crap in the valley. tired, thirsty and restless, found a place to park for the night.
did some great climbing despite the dog restrictions. cut it short, worried about the nights arrangements or lack there of. got a map to the pit, apparently incomplete because there was no pit, just an empty lot, some what trashed. warned of police hassle. hoped for the best, closed the curtains and crashed.
two as#@&%es interrupted an otherwise rest-full night. they said some crap that didn't make any sense, called me an as#@&%e then left without incident. maybe the dogs earned their keep. left the site cleaner than found.
had another great day climbing, nearly avoiding hefty fines ( I'm told that sheep don't like dogs, but that thousands of people don't bother them).
slept outside of the south entrance before driving home. only good night sleep had.
would not have thought again about the incident other than next time out, but the responsible, caring good Samaritan and other crack addict, thought that this info may help some other dirt bag climber that does not care to support the local m6.
comments; did not have the fire power that would normally be available, due to the screwed up gun laws in this area, more afraid of the government than of possible attackers in the night. would love to watch the dogs devour the as#@&%es, but again, the government.
so whats the point?
1. the world is a dangerous place and california is no exception. wherever you turn out the lights, be prepared to leap into action and defend yourself.
2. it sucks that the park service will not provide, or rather allow adequate sleeping space. tables and garbage cans are not needed. most people on a road trip have tables and garbage cans and portable toilets etc. most just need a place to park, some may need a place to set a small tent. climbers usually respect,pack it in pack it out.
clear some focking desert for christ sakes. reap the rewards. $10 per night times 200 times 30 days a month is a lot of money.
allow dogs with in 1 mile of the road and on trails, it aint scaring the fockin sheep!
3. climb in arizona, good camping, less restrictions, reasonable gun laws, just dont get caught with your medicine.
sorry you were not impressed with the good Samaritan's story
hope all will learn from this experience
rasta crack man
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Apr 17, 2010 - 07:41pm PT
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Besides bitching individually on Internet chat forums, has there ever been any organized effort to try to force the NPS to provide more camping spaces in JTNP? The Access Fund has been involved in issues relating to climbing access in the park, but this isn't directly involving access. Have they supported efforts of this nature in the past?
Wouldn't more camp sites just increase the impact on the park? Also, how many campsites would there need to be for there to be "enough?" A huge part of the year those sites sit empty. Getting 100 more sites would probably just result in more people (climbers and non-climbers alike) driving from LA to be there and the same number of people now getting negged. I wonder how many sites it would take for there to be "enough" at peak season. Probably more than any of us would like for there to be.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Apr 17, 2010 - 09:05pm PT
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It was pretty much "No Vacancy" the whole time I was there this last trip(3/30 - 4/12). I had people sharing my site (which I was lucky enough to snag; it was the ONLY one open in HVCG when I arrived that afternoon) every night.
One of the nights I was in town till about 10pm and as I pulled up to my place, I saw a car was in my spot. The other one was filled with a sharer's car. The good news was that the people were still there, getting their crap out of their trunk.
So, I pull up behind them, they briefly glance at me and turn back around, continuing to unpack. When I said "You're in my parking space and site," they said "Oh, we thought there was just one car here...."
Lands sakes, it never would occur to me to simply ASSUME I could set up my crap in someone else's site without specifically asking if it was okay to do so. I guess these folks didn't have such scruples. Had they bothered to ASK the neighbors to my left or right, who were both still up and about, they might have known there was no room at the inn....
Anyway, they actually barely reacted and I had to say "Well - get the hell out of my spot so I can park my car!"
They took their sweet-assed time in backing the car out, and as I pulled in, I saw they had already set up their fat old tent - dead smack in the middle of the place.
That was the most overt campsite issue this time,for me, but throughout the entire time, people would pull up, get out of their car and come squint at the little tag's date. Even as I am sitting there, 10 feet away, they wouldn't make eye contact and ask how long I was there for. It was bizarre.
There was actually a campsite hijack at the site next to me early on. This dude had a tent set up. It was in a little cove of rocks, but clearly visible and obviously belonging to that site. He had a car, but had gone for the day. I came back to my site about noon, to regroup, and there was a big old RV with 3 ladies taking photos of themselves in the RV doorway.
I asked if they were camping with the guy who had the site and they said "What guy?"
..... Pointing at the tent I said "that one...."
And they got IN my fa ce telling me that his tag had the wrong date on it and they now had the site. EVEN though he had a tent set up in situ, they didn't care.
Now, dude was stupid - It was high season and he hadn't updated the tag, but how many of us pay a day or two at a time(since you can't get a refund)? Still - I think it is pretty ballsy to hijack a site like that.
Never seen the park as full of campers as it was this time. LOTS of families. Yet out and about, I barely saw them. I wondered if it was partly due to people choosing less expensive vacations with the economy sucking.
As for the Pit - I am too heavily laden as a camper to stay there. I hate setting up my tent for just one night, and would never trust my tent would be there if I didn't take it down when I wasn't there. Besides, I had at least 3 people from Supertopo whom I had never met before actually stop by my camp site and introduce themselves.
I should be the winter campground host for HVCG..... hahaha
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Apr 17, 2010 - 11:00pm PT
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Brendon,
Are you referring to me as "authority man"?
I sent this very question to your email as well.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Apr 17, 2010 - 11:44pm PT
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amboy crater ain't bad in the spring.
or the Aroma Laundermat in town, just put a quarter in the dryer every hour,
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Apr 17, 2010 - 11:51pm PT
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Well, I am for one not amused.
Based on this level of disrespect, I am very inclined to discuss the closure of the pit for good with the owner.
I spent close to half an hour on the phone with the Watch Commander at the Sheriffs Dept trying to resolve the issues.
Since nobody seems to have any interest in putting any donations etc, I'm really kinda done.
The pit ain't paradise, but it's better than nothing.
So, since I'm now the porcine element here, and I've put more time into that place than anyone except the owner, it's clear to me it's no longer worth my time.
Good job Brian.
I'll make sure to make it very well known you were the straw that broke the camels back.
I hope you're very proud of yourself.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Apr 18, 2010 - 09:19am PT
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Don't close the Pitt, RLF. Though I haven't stayed there(I come to JTree alone, and look to HVCG as a place to find social neighbors/pick-up partners; without that I am sure my trips would be a lot more alonely), I know the Pitt provides a place to crash for plenty.
Besides, that Brian poster is a first-post person. Probably somebody else from the site, but....who? They knew they were tooling you in making that post and that's why they made a fake name.
I'm willing to donate toward the gate upgrade - can send $25 if you let me know where to place it(PayPal?).
It does seem a lot of people have said "they told me at Nomads." The reason it seems "a lot" is because I have seen "they told me at" written on this site, and probably rc.com. So, the persons who write that are more aptly the reason for an increase in profile.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Apr 18, 2010 - 10:03am PT
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Don't blame you RLF.
Though I'm not a pit dweller, I appreciate your work. Being insulted for your work is uncool (to put it mildly) and I'm sure you've got other things in your life more pressing than working on behalf of (some) people who insult you.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
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Apr 18, 2010 - 10:54am PT
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Have never stayed there, may never have to, but it is a nice thing to know that when you get denied at the park, there's a place to stay to make that 2.5 hr drive from DayGlo not in vain. I've got some PayPal funds too if that'd help. If I can make it out to help with some construction, I'd be glad to help there too.
I do find the whole thread to be a bit mystifying. Seems like the OP was just trying to let everyone know that there's a safety factor involved that perhaps might go underestimated, then gets slammed for being somewhat cryptic in the way it was described. Whatever. The place is a nice service to the community and those that use it or recommend it need to be respectful of the creators' efforts to provide such. Chip in a little sweat or some cash to keep it and improve it, just like anything else you value in life.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Apr 18, 2010 - 11:26am PT
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I agree- don't blame yourself Robert. This has gotten a bit harder since the Bloot isn't there any more. I for one would offer up some dough if it would help. I also am offering my time. Perhaps going in and doing some re-vamp/ clean-up? I'd be happy to create some better signage- some "Suggestions for Visitors" or "No Parking" or new lines of rocks where you need the cars to not be parked. etc... whatever you feel is relevant. I've also got a 10' x 3' chain link gate and 2 poles I'll donate for free if the property owner would like a real gate.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 18, 2010 - 11:30am PT
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Read to me like he was whining to the park service, not rlf.
Sounded like someone to ignore.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Apr 18, 2010 - 11:39am PT
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( I'm told that sheep don't like dogs, but that thousands of people don't bother them).
Absolutely true!
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 18, 2010 - 11:47am PT
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rlf-
I understand your dilemma very well as a landowner. The problem is not of your making--these tweakers are. Since you are the one "responsible" for keeping the place under control for the landowners, you are in a tight spot. How about a small "donation" from the users to hire an occasional and unscheduled visit by a "rent-a-cop" type security service? Nothing would be better than hauling their tweaker-a$$es before a local magistrate for criminal trespass. Others might then get the message.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 18, 2010 - 11:48am PT
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Also - just a thought - if one of my neighbors opened up their property for free-for-all camping - I'd be pissed.
It's already been noted that this camping thing violates the zoning. Do you not think the neighbors are well aware of this?
What do these "tweakers" call the people who drive around their neighborhood at night, yet don't live there nor are a specific and welcome guest of one of their *present* neighbors?
This whole thing reaks of a background conflict.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Apr 18, 2010 - 12:15pm PT
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JLP- Advocate for Local Tweakers Rights??? LOL ;)
I think most residents would prefer out-of town climbers to local tweakers roaming around out there.
As long as the "visitors" to the Pit are low-key, quiet, and out-of site... the neighbors have been cool about "overnight parking" so far ( I won't use the term "camping"). Problems arise when people are conspicuous, messy and leave property lying around that might start attracting local sc#m-bags.
In this case a tweaker banging on windows in the night is just bizarre. It actually could have happened to a neighbor's house just as easily as a vehicle.
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jstan
climber
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Apr 18, 2010 - 12:25pm PT
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RLF:
If you step back and look at the situation, problems seem inevitable. The facility violates zoning and there is no provision for full time supervision. You need have only one neighbor complain or have only one visit by the sheriff and your marshmellow is off the stick. And when it does fall off the stick you are going to have discussions in the town and within the sheriff's department concerning climbers.
Those can make even a solid approach to the problem more difficult in future.
I may be leaning into the wind a little on this next bit but just pretend you are a long time JT resident and hear me out. You personally have been involved with a violation of zoning. Suppose, you as a resident, hear that Mr. Fonda is now involved with another attempt to create a campground for these climbers. What are you going to think?
Putting together something viable is going to take cooperation with the NPS, possibly the town of JT, and the lead will have to be taken by a well established and well regarded group. A steep hill is going to have to be climbed.
And all of that is not even the hard part. Being a ranger and having to deal with climbers, some of whom are not particularly mature is a hard job that can turn unpleasant after ten or fifteen minutes much less ten or fifteen years. If this job of work is to be done at all it has to be done in that kind of time frame. That is why most campgrounds you see are run by organizations such as the NPS.
Edit:
One might think that the good Dr.'s suggestion of a ratted out house could go in out in Landers somewhere. But there too you have neighbors who are themselves holding on by their teeth and who do not need the extra fun of being poorly treated by rich weekenders from the city.
It's the frontier out there. They have their own ways of dealing with things.
His suggestion would probably be acceptable to the local people if you get agreement from the Marine Corps. to site the facility out on the marine bombing range. You might even be able to get some cash flow by setting up a grandstand and charging local people admission to come and watch.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Apr 18, 2010 - 12:32pm PT
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who wants to go in on a house?
i will kick in 500 bucks.
i bet we could get a ratted out forclosure for 50 grand up there.
so we need 50,000/500 = 100 donors and we have the
K Tree Motel.
or the Taco House Hotel.
we could run an prostitution bizness in the off season.
who wants to work the rooms?
LEB?
nah, nobody would go 50 bucks to hump that, i'm jus sayin...
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
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Apr 18, 2010 - 12:40pm PT
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Well, if my memory isn't complete swiss cheese, this place has been around for a few years. Seems like the neighbors would've put the kaibosh on it fairly quickly if there was an issue. Now as it gets more popular, the potential for issues grows, but if we try now to nip it in the bud and keep this thing on the DL with some respectful understanding by the users and people who recommend it, the potential for problems will be minimized. Would seem a shame to lose something this valuable to a lack of understanding & courtesy.
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