Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Chief
climber
|
|
Interesting.
Although this is a climbing site, lots of non climbing subjects get discussed, including politics, environmentalism and other rigid belief systems. There is after all, more to life than climbing. If we're going to suggest the subject in this thread is not welcome, the same applies to the rest of our non climbing blather and we'll need to clean up big time.
I'm just as OK with the Christians floating their clouds of must believe as I am with people ranting about whether the Republicans or Democrats provide better government for the US, neither have much to do with climbing.
There is a widely held view that the Bible when viewed in it's entirety easily portrays God as pathologically predisposed to jealousy, vengeance, murder, homophobia, religious intolerance, racism, gender bias and child abuse. I support this view and suggest we don't take a disparate collection of musings of long dead, wandering Semites too seriously.
Having said all that, I do like the message of tolerance and forgiveness espoused in The Sermon on the Mount.
PB
|
|
Double D
climber
|
|
Climbing and the Bible not relevant?
Test all things; hold fast that which is good. (1Th 5:21)
This should be a mantra for all climbers! Any accomplished big-wall climber knows the merits of this.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. (Ro 1:20)
Climbers are exposed in an exquisite way to God’s creation.
Praise the LORD. Praise the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights. (Ps 148:1)
For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. (Isa 55:12)
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
Klimmer, please re-read the passages that I have quoted and try to apply them... if everyone did the world would be a much better place.
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
My favorite passage from the Holy Book has direct application to climbing. It is:
"And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire, a fifth share is assigned to God."
(from the Holy Qur'an Surah 8, 41)
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
Very nice Dave!
Great scripture and great image. Amazingly good.
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
Ed,
I read those passages/quotes you posted from other Holy books. I have no problem with any of them. Like I said, there is truth in all Holy books of many different faiths. And you will find a link, a comparison, a connection of truth through them all as though they attempt to say the same thing at times. This is very true.
But are these books all completely true? They contradict each other in many different significant ways the more one studies and compares them.
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
Ghost,
I have not read the "creationist" thread because it appeared to be an attempt to goad Christians into an argument. I don't want an argument. I want to share with other believers (I use the uncapitalized version of "believers" intentionally here, to include all religions), or with those who truly want to know about Jesus Christ, rather than argue about Christians.
As such, that thread and this thread differ in title, and should differ in content. I can't control the behavior of the anti-Christians or the anti-religious. This thread asked for favorite verses, not for arguments. I hope the two threads will settle into that pattern. Those who want to argue religion can go to Norton's thread and igonore this one. Those who want to share verses and inspiration (thanks particularly for yours, DD!) can stay here and ignore Norton's thread, as I have.
Of course, I'm not naive enough to think that will happen. The early history of this thread demonstrates that the anti-Christians and anti-religionists can't help themselves. Something compels them to tell us how stupid they think we are. Even though we know their feelings, I am sure they will continue to tell them to us.
Incidentally, I agree, Ed, that the world would be a better place if people did good. What those verses show is that the concept of what is good isn't nearly as subjective as many would have us believe. I could add much more, but that's better left for a different topic.
John
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
|
|
JEleazarian wrote-
Something compels them to tell us how stupid they think we are.
So what is that "something"? It's concern as informed citizens of a modern democracy who care about the direction the world is going in.
It's ol'time religions which are an obstacle in the path to higher education, both science education and general life education. It's adherence to ancient theist doctrines that stand in the way to better practices in the practice of living.
Believe you me, if this weren't a democracy (where votes count) you could believe the moon were made out of blue cheese and I couldn't care less.
You're not without blame either. Moderates like you run interference for the real religious crazies out there.
When religious institutions stick to what they do best and stop trying to tell the rest of us how the world works and/or how life works (the baliwick of the sciences) then there won't be a conflict any longer.
P.S. Where's Weschrist when you need him?
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
from my way of thinking, that bit of wisdom, repeated over and over by many different and divergent ways of thinking and behaving, are telling us a "truth" more profound than any of the other stuff...
treat others the same way you would want to be treated
that is a transcendentally wise statement which, apparently, needs no further justification than its obvious correctness.
probably more ancient than any religion... and it can be expanded beyond reference to just humans.
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
Thanks for referring to me as a "moderate," HFCS. Too many with your view of life see any who disagree with them as either misguided radicals (if they're to their left) or fascists (if they're to their right).
John
|
|
habitat
climber
grass pass
|
|
Well, I'm an atheist so it goes without saying I don't believe in God. But I have a lot of respect for those that do. How could I not, when I have some very good friends who are devout Christians? And even though they know well and true who I am, and where I stand, they have often sent verses my way to comfort me in my darkest hours.....and indeed, they have brought me round to a brighter place, and given me hope where there was none.
I don't own a bible, but I sure enjoy reading it whenever I stay in a hotel. I look forward to it, knowing it is there in the little drawer by the bedside. I especially like the way those particular bibles are arranged, so that those of us who are not familiar with it, can find easily passages that might apply to our current situation.....and there's always some sort of 'situation' going on.....life being what it is, that is, not perfect.
So, I don't have anything of substance to contribute here...but wouldn't mind reading a few passages, as they become available here, as I always find it comforting. And interesting, thinking about how others think.
|
|
Jingy
Social climber
Nowhere
|
|
JEleazarian - yeah... you got it all figured out..
wow...
and here I was trying to hide behind the fact that this is a climbing forum... and not a "This I Believe" forum...
gooood call!!!
habitat - ok.. but have you ever considered.. "There is no god?"
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
God may not be fooled, but if he's willing to let them keep doing it that way, He *is* irresponsible. Perhaps he should change the Word, install a 3-strikes rule or something...
Another danger is the belief that God is going to take care of all things wrong in the end. I was sitting with my brother and a friend, talking about the problems in the world, and one of them said "I'm not worried about it, because Jesus is going to come back and take care of business."
Scary. Just ignore the problem because the calvary's coming... I'm not worried about God being fooled, I'm worried about God's follower's being fooled.
Stzzo,
I hear you. Call them on it. We aren't supposed to wait to do good. We are to do it now. We are supposed to be doing all the things we can do right now. Caring for the homeless, the sick, those without. We need to fight for social issues and justice, and do right by the Earth's environment. Remember, in Jesus's day, the Sadducees and Pharasees who were the most Holy (at least outwardly), but Jesus called them on it and called them a generation of Vipers (ouch). They were hypocrites.
However, everyone is to blame. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of GOD, as the Good Book says. With a 3 strikes rule none of us would be here. We screw-up all the time and constantly.
The Good Book says GOD is patient and long-suffering. Good thing or we would all be gonners.
Bottom-line. We are supposed to be busy taking care of bussiness, not sitting idly on our hands waiting for the Calvary to arrive. In fact, he gave us a clear directive to be doing so. And he better find us hard at work doing his will, or there is hell to pay -- literally.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
"It worked!"
Given that god works in mysterious ways, how far did you fall?
|
|
lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
|
|
Thank you Jesus for turning water into wine. John 2: 1-11
and
Hail Mary full of Grace, thank you for finding that parking place.
|
|
Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
Wow, for all the spew about politics, science, and non-climbing related topics that pass for content on this site, there's a lot of hatred for a single post asking for positive comments about a religious work of literature. Would all this venom be directed at a post that asks for favorite quotes from the Upanishads? I think not.
And for the record, just as it's not OK to hate people for being gay, of color, etc., it's similarly not OK to do so simply because they cling to a particular religion. Very poor form people.
Here's a couple much better ones for you Juan that all you right wingers tend to overlook:
1 John 4:8: "He that loveth not knoweth no God; for God is love."
1 John 4:20: "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar; for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?"
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
|
|
Woe to you who add house to house and join field to field till no space is left... Isaiah 5:8
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
Wow. I never read that passage before. If I did it didn't sink in.
There you go. A bible verse against over development and urban sprawl.
Cool.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
|
|
Fat Dad wrote-
there's a lot of hatred for a single post asking for positive comments...just as it's not OK to hate people for being gay, of color, etc., it's similarly not OK to do so simply because they cling to a particular religion. Very poor form people.
Reframe it.
Criticism of beliefs- in the interest of better practices in the practice of living-- doesn't translate to hate or hating people.
Hadrian- Brick by brick.
Ghandi- Be the change you seek in the world.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!