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slabbo
Trad climber
fort garland, colo
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Dec 14, 2009 - 06:36pm PT
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Ya I did You Asked For It - great route. A warm up for BY (which I sucked out after the first pitch) I LOVE runouts ! What's the bad thing ? Your gonna die ?
Most "X" routes really are not that bad- you will live. Even things like Perilous Journey and Krystal Klear are really a strong RRRRRR
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midarockjock
climber
USA
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Dec 14, 2009 - 06:55pm PT
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slabbo,
Have you been on big boys don't cry? I was thinking about you asked for it
at 1 time. I heard the crux was at the end, though I read a article that said
the route was sustained throughout. I once did a route about 100' of solid 5.10
and probably no move under 5.9 and rated 5.10b though I can't remember the
5.10(b) crux nor did I know where it was when I lead it. It was not R or X.
Btw, JB told me the crux X move on you asked for it is a 120' deck move.
The Dike Route is not 5.9 R and the pro is easy to see there, but it was very nice
5.6-5.7 X.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Dec 14, 2009 - 08:55pm PT
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I remember leading a pitch on one of the R routes on Pywiack...I think it was Piece of Grass. I was ~20?ft out with the belay bolts in reach. I reached down unclipped a draw from my rack and proceeded to clip one of the belay bolts when gravity took over and I fell leaving 2 parallel black rubber streaks along my fall path. Adrenalin & heart rate peaked but hardly suffered a scratch. I lost a couple of mm of rubber off my Fires and a few layers of skin off a couple of fingers but that was about all. After regaining my composure, I retraced my moves and had the draw ready in my mouth for the quick clip when I arrived at my previous high point.
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midarockjock
climber
USA
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Dec 14, 2009 - 09:29pm PT
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"Is this R or X factor = to A5 but free climbing Maybe stupid question"
A5 at 1 time I believe I read was 70' fall factor with difficult aid
moves regardless of injury factor. A6 at this time they were talking
about being X factor as they were with H5 or H6 in free climbing.
R I read at 1 time was 40' fall factor regardless of injury so maybe the Dike
route is 5.9 R if he was not on piece of grass? I think anything above H3 was
probability of injury regardless of R rating distance. I don't see these H ratings
today nor did I through the 90's.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Dec 14, 2009 - 09:47pm PT
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Regardless of how the bolts were placed, there is someone(s) who first climbed it free. They did the FA.
Any statement like there are no FAs of Sport Routes is just gibberish.
Maybe on-sight, on the lead routes are better style, but that ain't the same thing as completely discounting the FA.
To my knowledge, the distance of a potential fall is not the determiner of R or X. It is whether the hard parts of the route pose a risk of a long fall. Any attempt to quantify R or X ratings is like trying to do the same for difficulty ratings. "I know it when I see it" type of thing.
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Fogarty
climber
BITD
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2009 - 09:52pm PT
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I remember 1984, Bachar was telling me about his two new climbs on The Footstool of El Cap, he named one The Promise and The other The Believer, he then asked if I wanted to get the second ascent and he would take pictures, I went up with a friend, JB showed with Damitri Barton, he showed us both his routes, I decide to start with The Believer, I looked up at The first bolt some 25 feet off the ground, I remember JB telling me that they were his taper lock bolts and they were bomber! I asked how hard is this one and he said it’s The easier of The two, I said ok remember this is not dot to dot chalk climbing and were not talking any rating R or x how many bolts etc. I remember climbing 5.10+maybe 5.11? steep face for some 25 feet to the first bolt and just remember going and going for some 30 feet to The 2nd bolt, as I remember The route has some 4 bolts on it, clipping The last bolt seemed like The crux as I looked down The talus to my left at Bachar and Damitri, with The camera out ready to take picture of my DEATH, it was just about dark and I couldn’t fall or hang, due to my mentor watching, I down climbed to The last bolt in The dark and tied off on one taper bolt pulled The rope and lower it to pull a second rope to rap of The route on that one taper bolt. A few years later I found out that those taper bolts were shit! I never returned to finish this route, has any one climbed one of the two?
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jsj
climber
Boulder
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Dec 14, 2009 - 10:17pm PT
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From the last piece of pro there's 20' of continuous 10+ edges to a final 5.11 move. This is that move. I tried to stay relaxed but the tension just kept building... and right after the 5.11 move is this plainly obvious jug in the rotten bad. I rushed the move... but somehow didn't fall.
The whole time I was acutely aware that some dudes had skidded to a halt on the road below, gotten out of their truck, and sat down in Crazy Creek chairs to watch. Later they sent me this photo.
From the rotten band I continued up the tan face to that shady "arete".
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Dec 14, 2009 - 11:14pm PT
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healjye is mostly just playing around ya'll
sheesh
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 14, 2009 - 11:23pm PT
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Plenty of ground-up routes with all original bolts are sport routes at Owens, Yosemite, Pinnacles, and elsewhere.
Last I checked sport climbing didn't included aiding of any kind, so lines drilled from hooks might be an FA, but wouldn't be a sport FA. The only thing I'd call a sport FA would be ground-up, drilling from stances and I doubt there are precious few of those that anyone today considers sport routes - B-Y certainly isn't one.
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MH2
climber
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Dec 14, 2009 - 11:23pm PT
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Think of some Leads in your life, if you fall you DIE!
1985 on the North Face of North Early Winter Spire, Washington Pass
Mid-way up the first pitch, look down and note that a fall will land me on the ground, look left at the smallish footholds that are the only features to continue on, think, "They must only do this route in early Spring when there is snow for the landing," look down again, think, "LOTS of snow"
Yeah, I learned my lesson about guidebooks on that one!
I'm with Chiloe - the few times I've had no choice but to be brave were unexpected.
bmacd,
We know that the Reality Chek crux pitch could be R. It took out some well-respected ankles this season. But like DMT the guy made his own way back down to the road.
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ec
climber
ca
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Dec 15, 2009 - 02:37am PT
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"Where protection is not assured by a usable crack long unprotected runouts sometimes result, and the leader of commitment must be prepared to accept the risks and alternatives which are only too well defined. Personal qualities - judgment, concentration, boldness - the ordeal by fire, take precedence, as they should, over mere hardware.
..."But every climb is not for every climber; the ultimate climbs are not democratic. The fortunate climbs protect themselves by being unprotectable and remain a challenge that can be solved only by boldness and commitment backed solidly by technique. Climbs that are forced clean by the application of boldness should be similarly respected, lest a climber be guilty of destroying a line for the future's capable climbers to satisfy his impatient ego in the present -- by waiting he might become one of the future capables. Waiting is also necessary; every climb has its time, which need not be today.
..."And having the humility to back off rather than continue in bad style - - a thing well begun is not lost. The experience cannot be taken away. By such a system there can never again be "last great problems" but only "next great problems." - Doug Robinson, "The Whole Natural Art of Protection"
Man, that 'Impatient Ego' gets the best of us sometimes...
However, I still rather use this as a guideline.
 ec
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50
climber
Stumptown
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Dec 15, 2009 - 02:41am PT
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Anyone climb Ochre Fields? Tuolumne Tradster and I were attracted to this beautiful featureless expanse on the Apron in the '80s. Seemed pretty spicy to me and in the R/X zone.
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mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Dec 15, 2009 - 02:51am PT
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Slabbo, if you're ever in Calif. you gotta go to Hammer Dome (aka Lo-Cal Dome, across from Calaveras) and do the couple of 11b R routes there (topos say R/X but just solid R). Successive healthy runouts (30+) on bolts obviously drilled from the only stances. Great routes, quality slab climbing. And take your 6mm rap rope fluffed out to 7.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 15, 2009 - 04:30am PT
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"The idea that the reasoning is 'Making an ego statement' seems odd at the time of the ascent.
Declinging to add a bolt or provide permission after the fact may be the ego statement. In the moment of establishing I don't think I go "wow, people will respect me if I put up a run out"
some people do it, or did it. Climbing has undergone many changes. Remember 5.9 used to be the hardest grade and bolts for protection used to be more frowned on.
Climbing has always had an element of competitiveness for some people and there was a time when people competed on boldness as much as Technical difficulty and whatnot.
When I posted that list of possible factors, I didn't say all of them were involved in each x rated pitch, just that people put up x rated pitches motivated differently.
Peace
Karl
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Dec 15, 2009 - 04:36am PT
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50,
> Anyone climb Ochre Fields? Tuolumne Tradster and I were attracted to this beautiful featureless expanse on the Apron in the '80s. Seemed pretty spicy to me and in the R/X zone.
I did it in the mid-80s with John Lockhart, and then went back last summer with Bob (cragnshag) - Bob led me up Deep Throat and Ochre Fields.
(See Bob's photo on Deep Throat earlier in this thread):
From the top of this long 5.9 section, we traversed left to join Ochre Fields.
We fixed ropes so that Roger could replace the bolts on it.
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slabbo
Trad climber
fort garland, colo
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Dec 15, 2009 - 09:57am PT
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Hammer Dome- that has Set Your Controls For The Heart Of The Sun ? a 3? pitch 5.11 right ? I think I remember that from the late 80's or so. I "learned " the fine art of r & x in NH.
Ochre Fields- I was just re-reading Mountain magazine issue #69. Wow ffa of El Cap West Face , ffa Half Dome, f/a Grand Illusion, interview with Jardine about Friends AND f/a of Hall of Mirrors ! carl Austrom "do ochre Fields, at least you won't die"
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 15, 2009 - 10:43am PT
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I climb in TM and JT...... to many R X rated things to list.
I am sort of worried because a lot of "new" climbers are wondering why climbing can't be safe.
They mean "safe" meaning.... lots of bolts!
I draw them a map with directions on how to get to NJC.......
If they have something on the ball, and wish to know about climbing's lore, history and weird little customs. I take em climbing and show them just how it has come to be......
Lesson #1 ..... ditch all the new gadgets, cams,gri-ggi etc and go with nothing but hexes, stoppers ... go and climb something.
This puts a whole new perspective on climbing that they have no idea about.
At my local GYM... I go to train, not to "climb" cuse everybody knows there is no rock climbing in gyms, "The Guides" do try to instill some of the ethic into these infants.
I think this is a good thing and I would hope that anybody introducing somebody to our sport would take some time and explain a few things to them.
end of rant
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DanaB
climber
Philadelphia
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Dec 15, 2009 - 11:06am PT
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"I'm here to climb, I can do these moves - I'm going for it."
I thought this was one of the best posts, by far.
Dana
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MH2
climber
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Dec 15, 2009 - 04:36pm PT
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a personal interpretation:
R means worry about getting hurt
X means tasting gunpowder
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Fogarty
climber
BITD
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 15, 2009 - 05:05pm PT
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Suicide Rocks Weeping Wall 5.10c R, I remember one day slipping and sliding down one of the routes on this wall, some 30 feet and once The rope stoped me I remember looking at my finger tips on both hands watching thim blister and fill with puss before my eyes, I burned my tips as I slid down The face.
The key is to not fall!
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