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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 22, 2005 - 11:36am PT
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The parents of Peter Terbush have filed a $10 million lawsuit against the NPS. Peter was killed 6 years ago by the large rockfall on the Glacier Point Apron. He's always been sort of a hero to me. When they found him, he still had his partner on belay. What a fine fellow.
His father is pushing the lawsuit. What strikes me as odd is that Peter learned rock climbing from his father.
I wonder why a climber would file this sort of suit. The gist of it that he believes a leaking sewer line caused the slide.
Any thoughts from you Valley denizens?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Aug 22, 2005 - 11:38am PT
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The lawyers will win.
:- k
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Howie
Trad climber
Calgary, Alberta
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Aug 22, 2005 - 11:41am PT
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k-man is spot on.
H.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
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Aug 22, 2005 - 04:33pm PT
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suing to fix the problem is one thing, suing for 10 million? Hey I wonder what he would have sold his kid for when he was alive? Another frivilous suit in the state of California, I hope the "dad" will be happy knowing he is profiting from the death of his son, isn't like rockfall is anything new at GP or in Yosemite for that matter. When the suit is settled I'm calling the "dad" for a beer on him and I'm gonna ask the Fish and Watusi to join me
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atchafalaya
Trad climber
California
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Aug 22, 2005 - 05:08pm PT
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nobody wins in this one. The lawyers for the govt, nps, are most likely US attorneys, paid salary from taxpayer funds. Plaintiffs counsel is on a contingency no doubt, and may lose his/her shorts if defensed.... Nothing is gonna bring the climber back. You cant fight mass wasting... and the kid assumed the risks inherent in this sport....
Its lawsuits like this which jeapardize access. If they are found liable, expect the apron closed to climbing. While I feel for the parents, a lawsuit based on shaky grondwater expert witness testimony does so much more harm than good.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 22, 2005 - 05:16pm PT
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From the article in the LA Times, it may be more than the Apron closed to climbing.
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Michael Moron
Social climber
Davison, MI
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Aug 22, 2005 - 05:28pm PT
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There are going to be big problems with the new Merced River Wild and Scenic River Management Plan. Wild and Scenic status imposes a 1/2 mile protective overlay on all river segments. Seems to me that this would affect access to Liberty Cap, Nevada Falls area, Vermal Falls, Royal Arches, Lower Brother, El Capitan, Cathedral Rocks and Spires, the Rostrum, Cookie Cliff, Pulpit Rock, Arch Rock, etc.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 22, 2005 - 07:17pm PT
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Allegedly, when the leech lines when to the East, there was a huge slide to the East. They routed them to the North, then there was a slide to the North.
NPS denied that their leach lines affected the slides, but now they have porta-heads and composting toilets where their mega-expensive new bathroom is. (which is only prudent given the circumstances and pending litigation.)
That's all I know
Karl
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Aug 22, 2005 - 07:25pm PT
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On what grounds is the lawsuit being filed? That there was a known danger and they let him climb? I can see if he had been sleeping in a cabin near Curry or something but climbing?!? I feel for the family but this kind of thing turns an unfortunate incident into an embarassing one. A good buddy of mine pitched off the top of the Cookie a few years ago because of a loose rock he stepped on while tossing a TR rope. Lincoln was at the Cookie that day and even though he was off duty he was remiss in his duties as Climbing Ranger by allowing that loose rock to go unaddressed. I'm going to encourage the family to sue Lincoln! Better call some of your Yale buddies, Mr. Else!
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Aug 22, 2005 - 07:27pm PT
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I still find it hard to believe that with centuries of snow melt (and rain) on the Apron, a few years discharge from a toilet is going to make any difference.
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Aug 22, 2005 - 07:27pm PT
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Sorry, missed the leaky toilet thing. I hope they are suing to fix the system and not for dollars.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 22, 2005 - 08:51pm PT
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One way or another hydraulic pressure is probably responsible for much of the rockfall in the Valley - the question here is whether the overflow from the lines "greased the skids" as it were. Water in large amounts builds up substantial pressures to both cleave and lubricate systems of fractures and that it does so isn't rocket science. The simple dye tracer testing proposed, but disallowed, should have been conducted a long time ago and would have gone a long way to resolving some of the more technical issues pertaining to the case.
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ChoochCharlie
Trad climber
South East PA
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Aug 22, 2005 - 09:01pm PT
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I love the term "leaking septic tanks"
From those who have no clue what happens when they flush.
In all of the septic inspections I have done, I have found only 1 leaking tank.
Where do people think the liquid goes?
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 22, 2005 - 11:33pm PT
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Very very selfish act on behalf of Peter's father!
You couldn't get any more selfish!
A double tragedy ...........
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 23, 2005 - 12:53am PT
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This isn't necessarily a "climbing" issue, and the person killed in the first GP rockslide was a non-climber at the Happy Isles nature center. The septic system at GP is already closed as far as I can tell.
It does seem unfortunately that the family decided to sue, but I won't say so firmly because, like most of us, I don't have all the details about "what did who know, and when did they know it"
It all gets fuzzy. Corporations often complain that they get sued by people, but the same corporations actually sue each other at a greater rate than individuals sue them. There is often two sides to things. The maker of Vioxx just got hit with a huge judgement that, when combined with lawsuits in the pipeline, may force them to go under or be taken over. Still, it's not just a case of a dangerous product, but of intentionally hiding the danger.
In business, like politics, the coverup will screw you faster than the original sin. I'm not commenting on NPS's case, as I don't know it.
Peace
karl
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bspisak
climber
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Aug 23, 2005 - 02:13am PT
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Here's a link to the study that found the park service created the problem by changing the leach field for the toilets at Glacier Point.
http://www.radford.edu/~cwatts/yosemite/
"When the results implicating the septic leach fields were reported at the Annual Meeting of the Association of Engineering Geologists in Salt Lake City in 1999, the findings were quickly challenged by Yosemite National Park."
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 23, 2005 - 03:51am PT
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Lois,
That's a bit of surprising spin on the Vioxx front for someone in the medical profession. The Vioxx debacle is more about selective publishing of drug trial results and the very unhealthy machinations that now constitute pharmeceutical marketing; it really has very little to do with inappropriate scripts. The drug companies shot themselves in the foot this time, and it was totally unnecessary. But trialed and marketed appropriately the cox-2 class of products would never have penciled out as the blockbuster panacea they tried to hustle and bank on. Bad things happen when good drugs are pushed in inappropriate markets.
Is climbing risky, you bet, but this case likely and unfortunately has some technical merit and the NPS instantly circling the wagons, shutting down further research, and going into hyper attack mode doesn't serve climber's interest anymore than the parent's suit does...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 23, 2005 - 04:38am PT
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The "greed" of families suffering from genuine pharmeceutical malfesance pales beyond comparison to that of the drug companies'. Greed is what got them in this trouble to begin with in combination with their taking advantage of lax or non-existent government oversight of the "fasttrack" process. We don't have access to this class of drugs only because these folks systematically lied and covered up "uncompelling" data from the trials and did so on a rather embarrassing scale.
I don't believe greed is at the heart of either side of the Glacier Point case - but simply unfortunate parental and institutional responses to a tragedy.
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Mountain Man
Trad climber
Outer space
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Aug 23, 2005 - 07:09am PT
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Expect the appeals to result in a greatly reduced award.
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Bill
climber
San Francisco
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Aug 23, 2005 - 09:44am PT
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Personal responsibility blah - blah - blah.
Don't like being sued? Here's some personal responsibility for you: don't harm other people with your negligence. No one would have to sue if people didn't f*#k up so often, or if they took some personal responsibility and compensated the victims of their actions when they did.
Was NPS negligent? Who knows? Court will decide, based on who hires the better liars. Bummer if it impacts climbing access.
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