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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 29, 2009 - 05:04pm PT
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I have noted the Reid/Meyers guide shows a crag called the Oreo cliff, up & left of the Cookie. There is no description of exactly where this cliff lies. Has anyboody out on S.T. been there. Any tips or recommendations? How far do you hike up the old Oak Flat road?
Thanks in advance!
Bill Leventhal
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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May 29, 2009 - 05:20pm PT
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Bill,
I haven't quite been there, but I have been on the same cliff band, just up and right (the "Sunshine Cliff"). Easiest approach to Oreo Cliff should be by going to the base of Hardd on the Cookie and then hiking on the climber's trail up and left along the base of the Cookie. Oreo Cliff is just barely above the top of the Cookie.
Oreo Cliff
236. Animal Crackers 5.11c, thin, 100' L of Ninja, 70'
237. Original Chips Ahoy 5.10c, knobs, 40' L of Ninja, 60'
238. Ninja Flake 5.11, 1" splitter inside flake, 45'
239. Fig Neutron 5.11b, crack and knobs, outside flake
240. Spuds McKenzie 5.10d, thin crack to face, FN anch.
241. What's Your Fantasy 5.11b, 2p, 30' R of SM, 3x fp 60', 3x fp 105'
242. Snap, Crackle and Pop 5.10c, thin crack to knobs, 100' R, 50'
Kurt Smith has been there, of course....
236. Animal Crackers FA: Kurt Smith, Dave Hatchett, 1987
237. Original Chips Ahoy FA: Dave Caunt, Troy Johnson, 1987
238. Ninja Flake FA: Kurt Smith, Dave Hatchett, 1987
239. Fig Neutron FA: Charlie Fowler, Ed Collins, Dave Hatchett, Kurt Smith, 1987
240. Spuds McKenzie FA: Dave Hatchett, Kurt Smith, 1987
241. What's Your Fantasy FA: Kurt Smith, Stu Ritchie, Dave Hatchett, 1987
242. Snap, Crackle and Pop FA: Dave Hatchett, Ed Collins, 1987
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wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
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May 29, 2009 - 08:07pm PT
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There have been a few new routes up there, notably the Johnny Clark Memorial route, which is that amazing feature you can see to the right of the yellow line in the pic above. The route goes inside the "flake in reverse", from bridging and stemming up to chimmney, ow, etc, then turns the lip to the outside of the wall and goes up the face a little. It looks like the profile of a man, and is named after our friend Johnny Clark who is no longer the mayor of El Portal, but watches over us every day, and from his perch, can see the river he loved and lived in for so long. Sean Jones put it up, and I believe Shawn Reeder shot it...C'mon, lets see some photos!
As an aside, here's a haiku-style poem Johnny wrote (this is not verbatim, but from my memory)
The river makes me rich
There are diamonds in my beard
My skin is golden
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Sean Jones
climber
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May 29, 2009 - 08:50pm PT
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Wildone and whoever else,
Johnny Clark is a 4 pitch sport route just right of Capitol Punishment. Killer line.
P 1 5.11c
P 2 5.11b
P 3 5.11a
P 4 5.8
To the right of that and just left of Corn Corner we did a 3 pitch line called Tenatious D
P 1 5.10 D
P 2 5.10 B
P 3 5.8 or 9
This route is seriouse with big fall potential
All the way to the far right on this cliff we did a very small 5.6 Sweet Miracle Bolts only.
On the Cliff above and right we did a 7 pitch 5.11c/d
Roll the Bones. Some sport pitches, some gear pitvhes, and some mixed. Pro 1 each from small to # 3 at most Camalot and draws. This is a really killer route.
Roll the Bones is left of Edge of Absurdity not so far. There is a very big obviouse corner up there and RtB climbs just up beneath it and then takes the face below and left of it and then the arete that makes up the left wall of the big corner.
I think Eric Gable did the corner after we did our line. Don't know what it turned out to be.
To approach all the routes I just mentioned it's best to drive through the long tunnel on the 120 and park in a big pullout at the upper end of it then hike down the gully to the routes as they all top out and bring you back toward the car.
To approach the Oreo where Ninja Crack is and so on..... by all means come from below and hike out left of Hardd at the Cookie.
Wildone, Shawn did get some killer shots on Johnny but I think they were done on slide so will be a bit of a process to dig up. I'll try and get him to but right now he's on the east coast and surely those slides are back in Cali. I'll do my best. Also, I didn't get the cams in the mail to you yet but will soon. Sounds like with the injury, there's no hurry. How is that coming along ? Well I hope !
Sean Jones.
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Topic Author's Reply - May 29, 2009 - 09:42pm PT
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Clint - thanks for the info on finding the Oreo cliff. Your pictures made it make sense. I finally got an idea of where those routes are supposed to be. I remember the Hatchet brothers telling me about them long ago. It seems that few climbers venture over there, why, I couldn't say.
Sean
Thanks for the info! Those routes sound terrific! If the weather holds, I'll get on 'em this weekend.
Thanks again for the beta!
Bill Leventhal
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wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
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May 29, 2009 - 11:26pm PT
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Yeah! Good on ya, levy! Let us know how you fare!
Sean- NO RUSH, bro. My shoulder's so jacked, it'll be a coon's age before I'm chicken wingin'. Maybe if it heals up to a different size than my good one, I'll have more size options in the wide.
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Sean Jones
climber
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May 30, 2009 - 03:41am PT
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Levy,
How the hell are you ? Haven't heard from or seen you in forever. I'm living in Vermont now for the last year but just bought a house in Boulder, Co today. Will be moving there in 1 month from now. If you go to these routes, the best 2 to do are Johnny Clark. Actually the true name of the line is " We Love You Johnny" He was / is the best dude ever. And the other best one is "Roll the Bones" on the cliff obove and right. Come in from the top for both. Have fun in the valley and any time you're ever in Boulder, the door's always open there. Just spent some days climbing with Blair in the middle of the Sierras out behind Shuteye Ridge. Did some new routes and found the most awesome bouldering ever. Blair lives in Sacremento now, wife, 2 kids, is a contractor, but lately has been making a big push as a photographer as well. I've a wife and 3 kids now. Lots of work for us these days but still trying to hold it all together in the climbing arena. Hope all's well with you !
Sean.
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Sean Jones
climber
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May 30, 2009 - 03:45am PT
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These routes went in about 7 years ago. Funny thing they probly don't have second ascents yet.
Sean.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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May 30, 2009 - 09:20am PT
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oreo is a good little crag.
The hatchett brothers and i had a great time putting up some routes along with Charlie Fowler, Troy Johnson and Stu Ritchie.
It was a gold mine for us because there were quite a few classic lines waiting to be done. This was the end of the old school, no hang dog, ground up style that is now long since dead.
Go check it out and enjoy.
ks
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Sean Jones
climber
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May 30, 2009 - 10:34am PT
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The old days are nowhere near over. Untouched classics are everywhere out there. In countless situations I've done routs from the ground up, never hanging on anything. Cleaning on lead, while onsighting. Even bolting on lead. From stances only, putting the bolts in all the while hanging on nothing. We've done routes everywhere from 80 ft to 1,400 ft this way. Just did one a couple weeks ago in the sierras.
I still know where you're coming from though. Just after the route we did in this style. A 10d....we did a really tech and pimpy 12b/c on rappel. Both routes came out perfect but to try and do the 12 the same way we did the 10 would have ended in a different way.
The fact is that it's a new day and age where many styles are in. The bottom line for me is the end result. I bounce from one far end of the spectrum to the other and all in between and surely always will. Always holding the end result of the route as the highest of importance.
This "golden age" I hear of as long since gone....never went away...never will. Actually I think it's more of a golden age now than it ever was. People are doing things in styles these days that were only dreamed of then.
Sean.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 30, 2009 - 11:38am PT
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I think Eric's line is called "Adventures with Linda" but I have lost my topo of it along the way (might be in one of the piles in my room).... not sure it's seen a second ascent, unless Eric went back up there with somone.
There are many many lines to do on the "satellite" cliffs in the Valley, and there is a heterogenous style from "old school" ground-up stance-drilling to modern sport routes. While I mostly participate in "old school" style route production, it all seems to work out.
These cliffs are away from most of the action, and usually take effort to reach. Alone by themselves in almost any other place on the planet they would have 10s of climbs on them, sometimes 100s. Route reporting has dropped off as the climbing community makes a transition from print to the web. So many classic climbs as good as any formerly published often go without a second ascent. It is unlikely that you would learn about the climb unless you ran into one of the FA party and obtained a topo or description from them...
The lack of progress on the publication of an updated Reid's guide compounds the problem. Many FAs have been reported to Don, I would guess anywhere from 1000 to 2000 new routes have gone up, but they are largely unknown.
The relative ignorance of efforts is also a result of the lack of a strong social setting for climbing in the Valley. The NPS now enforces camping limits so that the residence of climbers that we read about during the 60s and the 70s is no longer possible. While there was the downside of "us" vs. "them" mentality, someone could have found out what was going on with a visit to Camp 4 and engaging the residents in discussion. That won't get you very far these days, Camp 4 does not have a corps of climbers involved in route development.
So after figuring out a route to a cliff, and arriving there via a bushwack, scree walk, slippery pine needle approach, and spying your line from the base, the existence of a well bolted, sport line on the face nearby is neither a deterrent nor a style warrant. You go about your business, as they did there's and put up some proud line in your style. There is so much rock, and so many routes, that to waste time tracking down the other FA team, or chopping their obscure line is just a waste of time and energy. Better to spend it on positive things like climbing a new line.
If and when a new guide ever shows up we'll reconcile all the route confusion. I've already been in communication with Clint over some lines he participated in putting up which went over some lines that Eric and I did on a faraway cliff, one that we speculate Sean has also visited, but I haven't had a chance to talk to him about it either.... Eric and I put some routes up natural lines with minimal bolting, it would be hard to see that we had ever been there... "catch and release" ethic... we're glad that someone else had an FA experience, a vindication of minimal impact. And at a great crag that is every bit as wonderful as Tuolumne's Stately Pleasure Dome, only you can be there all by yourselves on Memorial Day ticking off line after line of sweet 3-4 pitch moderate routes.
Back down to Oreo Cliff, a couple of years of work on Sunshine Cliff, to the west (left) of Capital Punishment (see the picture on page 43 of the Reid guide) FA 1972 by Chuck Pratt, Bruce Price, Jerry Anderson a few other routes put up in the 70s and 80s, some coiler routes, and others... really a great little area, and about 5 or 6 moderate routes, 2-3 pitches that are great for a winter's day put up by Eric and others... I'm looking at the topos now and smiling for the good memories...
There are many Valley adventures that await the climber with an open mind, a caring heart, and an adventurous spirit.
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Sean Jones
climber
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May 30, 2009 - 02:25pm PT
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Ed,
Is the wall you spoke of that I maybe was at....."Fireplace" ? Above Reeds. If so, I did do a few routes there.
Sean.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 30, 2009 - 02:31pm PT
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that would be the place... Fireplace Bluffs
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Sean Jones
climber
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May 31, 2009 - 12:09am PT
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Ed,
I went up to Fireplace maybe a decade ago for one day only. My plan was to do a route from the bottom to the top in one push and be gone. I was with Eliza White ( before married) now Eliza Kerr from El Portal.
The weather didn't pan out so nice so we opted to climb under the big roof in the middle of the face.
We did one easy crack, 2 pitches straight up to the roof where free climbing dead ended. This would be like right in the middle of the face and up to the middle of the big roof, maybe hitting the roof just a bit right of the middle of it.
We drilled anchors and rapped, then did another crack system just to the left of the first and ended at the same point and rapped again.
They were somewhere from 5.5 to 5.7 I think the left one being the harder one.
Named them " Mercy Street" and " White Trash" Can't remember which was which 10 years later.
Rain came in so we then went to the corner system that Takes you right up to the left side of the roof. One long pitch ends at a 1 bolt and some cams belay. Then we did one more long pitch climbing out right under the big roof until we were right over the routes we did below, rapped and called it a day.
That corner to roof traverse route may have weighed in at 5.9 ?
Can't remember the name we gave it for the life of me !
I do have a topo but it's buried deep in some box and won't come out till we get to Colorado in July.
I did also give Don Reid the topo as well as 100 others that I sure would love to see in print some day.
At this point, I'm glad we never did the summit route because with Walt's old line and Eric's, yours, and whoever else's, we surely would have crossed and f*#ked up someone's
Were the lines we did even firsts ? do you know ? Where we there before you ? I was probly up there just about 10 years ago.
It's really strange how time can fly. I really don't feel much different than back then or that so much has gone by. But lately I've started to realize that even I have routes that are pushing 20 years old in the valley.
Maybe tomorrow when I go just to climb out of bed and can barely move like today from doing nothing....I'll start to really realize that I am getting old !
Sean.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 31, 2009 - 01:50am PT
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We didn't cross lines... we did see your bolts on the two obvious lines leading up under the roof...
there is the Shipley/Middendorf route, and a bunch of Eric's routes, and Bill? & Clint have been up there...
Not sure Eric want's it advertised too much though... this is probably already over the line.
I'll call him up tomorrow and see if he minds.
We were up there a couple/three years about 5 years ago.
I think you were first once we find out where Walt and John went... but you never know. It's a long way out.
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Sean Jones
climber
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May 31, 2009 - 10:34am PT
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Cool place for sure.
Sean.
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dustonian
climber
Foresta
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May 31, 2009 - 11:33am PT
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Hey Sean,
Do you have a topo for the routes up above Ribbon Falls? I'd love to get up there in the next week or two.
Are you back in Vermont now?
Dustin
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aguacaliente
climber
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May 31, 2009 - 05:20pm PT
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Ed,
that's an eloquent and admirable little statement of purpose in your 8:38am post up the thread. Thanks.
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Sean Jones
climber
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May 31, 2009 - 11:54pm PT
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Dustin,
I am back in VT now. I'll try to find the topo and get it to you right away. My email is seankjones7@yahoo.com send me an email and I'll fire you a topo.
A really wild way to get to the top routes is via a 14 pitch 5.11c from below called "Sky People" This route comes out of the back left corner of the amphitheater. If the waterfall is running high though....mist could be soaking the bottom right now.
I'll get you a topo of that too just in case. If the water is too high, it's well worth just going to the top and camping in the sickest camp and doing all the summit routes as there is about 17 pitches alone up there to do and a few more killer fa's to do as well.
Sean.
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2009 - 01:11am PT
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Went up the Oreo cliff Sunday, after a few pitches at the Cookie to warm up. Just as Clint said, you traverse up & left from the top of Hardd. You might ask how was it?
Well I'm here to tell you.
It was quite overgrown & lichen infested. The hike was through some Poison Oak & involved copious amounts of hardcore bushwacking near the end. Oh yeah, the crag itself was pretty short. But the rock! The stone was killer! All sorts of interesting features, flakes & knobs & such. Under the lichen were some cool features that if clean, would be fun to climb on.
I went behind the Ninja Flake but there was no rock matching the description " steep face leads to a 1" splitter". I found a steep face leading to a very right leaning crack that went out to the arete of the flake's south side & ended there Over on the left side, a splitter finger crack off the ground shot straight up to the left side arete and seemed to end well short of the top of the flake. This crack would be simple crack climbing(5.9-5.10) off the ground so it didn't sound like the description in the Reid/Meyers book. There were more lines than are listed in the book & the bolts & such, din't match up in some cases so we were unsure what was what. I tried to get my friends to do at least one pitch so we could at least speak with some credibility about the quality of the routes, but my friends were insistient that we were out of there to go swimming & clean off all the dirt, P.O. oils & spider webs off the we accumulated during the hike over there. I found it hard to argue such impeccible logic. After hiking down, Merced liebacking was the perfect antidote we sought & found.
With some TLC, the crag might be a fun venue. Currently, you'd want sone clippers & a small saw to access the base of some of the routes, so it's low on the priority list for myself. Sean's route, Johnny Knox Route, looked good from far but we never hiked over to it. I'd guess I'd go back but there's so many other places that beckon. Fireplace Bluffs for one,
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