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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2009 - 12:27pm PT
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"sweet fuking ba jeebus.."
Locker, what is that supposed to mean?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Locker is upset.
He lost a dear friend and people are crawling up his butt holding forth all sorts of flimsy rationales for satisfying their morbid curiosity.
Good thing this is cyberspace.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2009 - 12:32pm PT
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Well maybe they can move all the arguing and shouting out of the other thread...
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Mimi
climber
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You obviously didn't read the other thread. It was a discussion, not arguing and shouting. Just delete this thing and quit being a ghoul.
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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Locker doesn't want this brought up yet. Something about a schedule that is not ours and morbid curiosity.
"Good thing this is cyberspace." LOL!
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2009 - 12:45pm PT
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"You obviously didn't read the other thread. It was a discussion, not arguing and shouting. Just delete this thing and quit being a ghoul."
Mimi, I did read it and while there is discussion, there is also arguing and shouting. But if it please you, you can call it a discussion. However you want to characterize it, I believe that the ...discussion shouldn't be on the memorial thread. I think it should be somewhere else or not at all. Mimi, explain why that is "being a ghoul?"
This thread is an attempt to create a lightening rod to prevent more ugliness in the memorial thread. I don't know whether it is working but it has become a striking point for anger and ugliness.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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I Dunno, if all the speculation comes over here and doesn't get in that other thread, then we can just ignore it.
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Mimi
climber
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How many different ways do you need to see that the people involved will post about the accident when they're ready? Who are you to start this thread? Therefore, knowing what you know about this story, and persisting in defying these people's wishes, makes you a ghoul in my book. This isn't about closure either, it's curiosity.
BTW, that wasn't specifically a memorial thread; it has just about everything in it.
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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Why all the secrecy?
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Mimi
climber
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Jaybro, who am us anyway?
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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we already be there.
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Mimi
climber
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Gotta move it though, the railroad's a'comin.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Are we all knott morbid vultures?
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Such vitriol and anger - I am astounded.
For what it is worth, I used to conduct forensic investigations into employee accidents and even a few deaths for a previous employer. Needless to say, I experienced first-hand the trauma that close friends and associates endured as the result of the accident.
Nonetheless, we also had an obligation to the rest of our people to get an analysis completed and published within 10 days of the event.
Not so we could be "ghouls" - but so we could examine the why and what could others do to avoid a similar fate. Even if is was caused by a lapse of attention versus an equipment failure - that was equally important to get out to the troops so that they had another vivid reminder of how tenuous their own safety could be.
It is telling to me in a detached way that there is so much resistance to having the forensics published and discussed. Whenever I have encountered such resistance in the past, it usually comes down to well-meaning but short-sighted "survivors" trying to avoid facing the truth about the cause of the accident.
Well-meaning in that they felt they were "protecting" their friend who had made a fatal mistake, but short-sighted in that they deny helping others avoid a similar fate.
Our informal motto was "Truth hurts, but lying kills".
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Mimi
climber
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There's still a chance that the grassy knoll figures into this.
The facts are known to those that need to know. Are people on this silly forum on a need to know basis?
Obviously, nothing new or mysterious happened here. So what's the rush? What's the harm of a respectful delay?
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Civilization, hoh!
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Back before the computer age, we would *know* what the paper printed (made up?), we'd hear a thing or two in the parking lot, and then we would wait until the end of the year for ANAM.
But because it happened in Joshua Tree it wouldn't make it into ANAM.
And a few months down the road there would be an obituary in the Climbing Rags.
The days before computers weren't that long ago.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Yes, the internet has been quite the facilitator to those with OCD. Seems to be a high prevalence amongst climbers.
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Mimi
climber
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One shining steel rail...
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