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Chris2
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 13, 2009 - 08:28pm PT
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Then I will feel confident that he is a man of his word. If the new administration finds that those held at Gitmo are held illegally, against the teaching of US Constitution, Geneva Convention etc., I will support the New Presidential Administration.
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Jan 13, 2009 - 08:33pm PT
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The Rights in The Constitution are "guaranteed to ourselves".
Not to foreigners who were caught waging war on America, and should consider themselves lucky to be alive.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
thats what she said...
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Jan 13, 2009 - 08:36pm PT
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so if he doesnt shut down gitmo will you recant your support?
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Jan 13, 2009 - 08:45pm PT
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Hell, just shoot the prisoners then shut the place down.
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ChoochCharlie
Trad climber
South East PA
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Jan 13, 2009 - 09:39pm PT
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http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE50C5JX20090113?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true
By David Morgan
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Pentagon said on Tuesday that 61 former detainees from its military prison camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, appear to have returned to terrorism since their release from custody.
Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said 18 former detainees are confirmed as "returning to the fight" and 43 are suspected of having done in a report issued late in December by the Defense Intelligence Agency.
Morrell declined to provide details such as the identity of the former detainees, why and where they were released or what actions they have taken since leaving U.S. custody.
"This is acts of terrorism. It could be Iraq, Afghanistan, it could be acts of terrorism around the world," he told reporters.
Morrell said the latest figures, current through December 24, showed an 11 percent recidivism rate, up from 7 percent in a March 2008 report that counted 37 former detainees as suspected or confirmed active militants.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
thats what she said...
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Jan 13, 2009 - 09:46pm PT
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well if that's not proof that WE'RE creating more terrorists, i dont know what is...
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AbeFrohman
Trad climber
new york, NY
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Jan 13, 2009 - 09:53pm PT
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Pork-
How is that creating more terrorists? Thats just giving them a nice vacation in the Caribbean, then sending them back to WHAT THEY WERE DOING BEFORE.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jan 13, 2009 - 09:53pm PT
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"Not to foreigners who were caught waging war on America, and should consider themselves lucky to be alive."
Let's not forget that most of the detainees in Guantanamo haven't been CAUGHT doing anything of the sort(waging war on America).
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jan 13, 2009 - 09:56pm PT
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Hey, if you had been picked up and dumped in Gitmo, wouldn't you go on the paid guest speaker tour of all the famous terrorist organizations. You have to cash in on that experience somehow.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 13, 2009 - 09:57pm PT
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The back pedaling has already begun.
Expect a grand pronouncement to appease the bleeding hearts, but two years from now it will still be there.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
thats what she said...
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Jan 13, 2009 - 09:57pm PT
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I guess my sarcasm failed to come through in my post...I just knew that someone was going to say that if I didn't, and MEAN it. So i figured I'd jump on the proverbial grenade.
edit:
Im sure that this comment might earn me the label of an insensitive a-wipe in many circles but I would rather err on the side of caution and detain people who have expressed a desire to harm us before they do so rather than after the fact.
IE if you get in a shoving match with someone and they c*#k their fist back- you arent going to wait till you've been dropped on the ground like a sack of dirt till you protect yourself...
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jan 13, 2009 - 10:01pm PT
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Well Lois, then you weren't paying attention. Because Obama said that the whole point of pushing for closing the place was to push for a better solution of what to do with these people, even if it means trials.
If we just keep them in prison without trials, then we go against everything America stands for.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
thats what she said...
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Jan 13, 2009 - 10:08pm PT
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trials are for citizens of America, not terrorists. anywhere else in the world combatants who are not uniformed would be dealt with much more severely than are the gitmo detainees. Even the Geneva Codes protect only uniformed combatants, not guerrillas. They are using the oversensitivity of the American public to gain advantage.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Jan 13, 2009 - 10:15pm PT
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I said this before:
A US based, penal colony for Muslim terrorists, located in communist CUBA.
THAT in itself shows the wrongness of the GITMO situation.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jan 13, 2009 - 10:19pm PT
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Porkchop: I agree with you mostly, but like many others I am uncomfortable allowing the US (or any other) government to incarcerate people indefinitely without any oversight by a court or other "neutral" reviewer of the evidence. Uncomfortable enough to allow dangerous terrorists to get back to their murderous business? That is the tough question that not even the great Obama will have an easy answer for.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
thats what she said...
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Jan 13, 2009 - 10:26pm PT
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True. It is a very tough question because while they should be evaluated in terms of whether or not they are a threat, the US court system isnt the place. I would imagine that you would have to be pretty shady or have some pretty sketchy cohorts to attract enough attention from the powers that be to the point that all the requisite time, money and effort is spent to track you down and then detain you...
Perhaps some rolling review (parole-ish) of behavior to evaluate detainees. I think it would be more efficient to simply do all that legwork before hand to eliminate the possibility of detaining innocent people.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
thats what she said...
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Jan 13, 2009 - 10:43pm PT
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I think that any kinks should be worked out of the system they have down there which is admittedly not perfect, but some sort of detention facility is necessary so long as we are going to be taking jihadist prisoners...
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jan 13, 2009 - 10:49pm PT
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RE: Where would they send them to be detained? They won't BE detained, they'll be liberated. Many of those people have been held without evidence - don't *some* of you get that?
Here's an article about Bush trying to find homes for the people who's lives we have ruined:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/03/world/asia/03australia.html?scp=8&sq=Guantanamo&st=cse
Here's an article about a guy who spend 6 years in Guantanamo:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/06/world/asia/06iqbal.html?scp=10&sq=Guantanamo&st=cse
In this article, there's a...interesting....quotation. I will excerp it here:
The Pentagon and the C.I.A. have a policy of not talking about the detainees, but a C.I.A. spokesman, Paul Gimigliano, said, “The agency’s terrorist detention program has used lawful means of interrogation, reviewed and approved by the Department of Justice and briefed to the Congress.
“This individual, from what I have heard of his account, appears to be describing something utterly different,” Mr. Gimigliano added. “I have no idea what he’s talking about. The United States does not conduct or condone torture.”
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
thats what she said...
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Jan 13, 2009 - 10:58pm PT
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I would certainly not agree with holding people there without evidence. My concern is with those people who find themselves there because of incriminating evidence. There most definitely ought to be detention facilities for people of that ilk. Those held without evidence should be released.
I just find it hard to believe that a vast majority of the detainees have been arbitrarily selected to be shipped off to Cuba and held for no reason whatsoever. That seems like an awful lot of effort to go through just to make someone innocent hate their life.
Not saying the gov't is above reproach- quite the opposite. I guess thats why I'm not in charge.
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