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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 21, 2008 - 01:44am PT
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Some one asked when the first use was...
Roper's 1971 guide does not use the word, or its hyphenated version...
Meyer's green guide (1976) does use offwidth
Looking through the AAJ the first use is 1974, by Galen Rowell, who seemed to use it a lot in his AAJ contributions of the time:
"offwidth" in the AAJ, earliest appearance: [url="http://www.americanalpineclub.org/AAJO/pdfs/1978/canada1978_538-554.pdf"]AAJ 1978 p545[/url]
Lotus Flower Tower, Free Ascent. In early August Mark Robinson, Sandy Stewart and I completed the first all-free ascent of the McCarthy- Frost-Bill route on the Lotus Flower Tower during a three-day spell of clear weather. Several days earlier; we spent two days on the wall freeclimbing to the terrace 1400 feet up but retreated in stormy weather. The first 300 feet involved awkward jamming up the wet and dirty dihedral with a difficult section near the top and route-finding problems establishing ourselves in the jam-crack. Climbing the long chimney system which then splits the lower wall was unpleasant, with loose holds, wet and dirty rock and much trash left from previous ascents. The extraordinary climbing on the upper “ski tracks” made up for this. We followed the aid cracks for most of the upper wall, occasionally traversing to either side of them when the climbing became wet or unpleasant. The second overhang was the crux on the upper face. After a steep, 30-foot headwall, the crack widened and turned into hand-jamming and finally, 300 feet higher, to offwidth. One further note: the trash problem is increasing rapidly in the meadows and on the walls themselves in the Cirque of the Unclimbables. There is trash behind every boulder and even in the cracks and chimneys on the Lotus we found large quantities of garbage. All climbers should familiarize themselves with proper trash disposal, the use of latrines and the “pack it in, pack it out” philosophy. We were also greatly distressed at the practices of the Belgian party, for shooting mountain goats and marmots, cutting down trees unnecessarily and incompetent waste removal. The Cirque of the Unclimbables is a magnificent and beautiful area. Please let’s keep it that way.
STEVEN LEVIN, Unaffiliated
In Galen Rowell's [url="http://www.americanalpineclub.org/AAJO/pdfs/1977/rowell_sierra1977_73-81.pdf"]AAJ 1977 p73[/url] "New Ways up Old Walls, High Sierra"
Winter ascent of Mount Conness West Face
"The next morning dawned clear and cold-ten degrees. I tried to free-climb parts of the next pitch in mountain boots with supergaitors, but resorted to aid for more than half the distance. The rock was monolithic and sheer, very much like Yosemite Valley and quite unlike most High Sierra climbing. Dennis and Mike took the next two leads of somewhat easier going. Then came a long crack, tiered with overhangs and widening into off-width climbing near the top. In 1959 the first ascent party did not have pitons wide enough for the off-width and they had placed several bolts next to the crack. These were widely spaced, however, and clearly indicate that considerable F9 climbing was done then at high elevation. Modern #10 and #11 hexcentric nuts make the bolts unnecessary, but I gladly clipped into them for safety. In the cold of winter we were concerned with getting up the route, not climbing it in perfect style. We often grabbed pitons and nuts as handholds."
First Free Ascent of Keeler Needle
"Chris was definitely the most skilled free-climber in our party and shortly after dawn he began the long corner. At first he face-climbed to the right, but after thirty feet he was forced into an off-width crack. The rock was not perfect and the altitude made jamming exceedingly strenuous. Watching from below, we could not appraise how Chris was doing. His motions slowed until he was only gaining an inch with each new positioning of hands and feet. But he wasted no movements; everything was smooth and under perfect control. It seemed that if he fell, that too would have been in perfect control. He didn’t fall; we knew the crux was over when his motions lengthened and he scrambled up to a rest position. The crux was F10-better protected and not as difficult as the one on Mount Conness a month earlier. We were surprised. Keeler was larger than Conness and it had a bolder appearance. We had expected it to be at least as hard."
[url="http://www.americanalpineclub.org/AAJO/pdfs/1974/141_lower48_aaj1974.pdf#search=%22off-width%22"]AAJ 1974 p146[/url]
Mount Hale Pinnacles and Mount Hale, East Face. On the ridge of Mount Hale that extends toward Mount Whitney, before ending above Arctic Lake, there are two very prominent towers separated by a gap of 100 feet. I climbed them in June with a belay from Jeff Campbell. The southerly tower is F6 and the northerly, F8. They are classic needles of monolithic rock that appear vertical from all sides. The east face of Mount Hall, a 1500-foot wall, is a Sierra classic, My first attempt in June with Greg Henzie and Jeff Campbell failed because of difficulty and acclimatization (Hale is 13,440 feet). In July I returned with Dennis Hennek and Dave Lomba. Dave was hit by the altitude on the approach, which crosses a 13,000-foot pass, and he didn’t make the final climb. Dennis and I left very early and soon found ourselves on continuously difficult rock. Five pitches in a row were F8 or harder. A few pitons were used for direct aid on an overhanging off-width crack, but otherwise the climb was free and clean. We tried to climb quickly as possible and reached the summit at 6:30 P.M. The climb is comparable in length and difficulty with the north wall of Sentinel Rock in Yosemite and is rated NCCS V, F9, A3.
GALEN ROWELL
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Nov 21, 2008 - 01:51am PT
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Well, seriously, I remember reading some WWII magazine ads and the phrase was used in the (very hush, hush) women's undergarment section.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2008 - 02:09am PT
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Bridwell uses "off-width" in [url="http://home.comcast.net/~e.hartouni/doc/Ignorant.txt"] The Innocent, The Ignorant, And The Insecure; The Rise and Fall of the Yosemite Decimal System[/url] Ascent 1973
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Nov 21, 2008 - 02:09am PT
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what the heck Lynknee? I'm curious, but afraid to ask.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Nov 21, 2008 - 02:13am PT
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Just looked for it in Roper, '71. Haven't found it yet. I think it's used in Jim Halfpenny's vedauwoo guidebook in circa '70, but I don't have it at hand.
OT, but related, William Faulkner used the word 'Dreadlock' to describe someone's hair, in, Intruder in the Dust 1948. Was it used before that?
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Nov 21, 2008 - 02:18am PT
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I just googled "Offwidth, earliest use", and the first link was this thread.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 21, 2008 - 02:26am PT
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What about the first use of the term "awful width"?
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Nov 21, 2008 - 02:37am PT
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didn't they used to hang people with an (Anne) Boleyn, on a coil, back then?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 21, 2008 - 02:38am PT
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Naah, it was the Queen of Hearts in "Through the Looking Glass".
`Idiot!' said the Queen, tossing her head impatiently; and, turning to Alice, she went on, `What's your name, child?'
`My name is Alice, so please your Majesty,' said Alice very politely; but she added, to herself, `Why, they're only a pack of cards, after all. I needn't be afraid of them!'
`And who are THESE?' said the Queen, pointing to the three gardeners who were lying round the rosetree; for, you see, as they were lying on their faces, and the pattern on their backs was the same as the rest of the pack, she could not tell whether they were gardeners, or soldiers, or courtiers, or three of her own children.
`How should I know?' said Alice, surprised at her own courage. `It's no business of MINE.'
The Queen turned crimson with fury, and, after glaring at her for a moment like a wild beast, screamed `Off width her head! Off--'
`Nonsense!' said Alice, very loudly and decidedly, and the Queen was silent.
Any resemblance of any of the characters to say LEB is no doubt purely coincidental.
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Strider
Trad climber
one of god's mountain temples....
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Nov 21, 2008 - 02:58am PT
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I checked some of the older books I have and was not able to find the off width term used.
Pinnacles - Roper, 1966
High Sierra - Roper, 1976
Yosemite - Roper, 1971
Tahquitz/Suicide - Wilts, 1974
-n
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Nov 21, 2008 - 03:01am PT
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If Mr Carroll 'owned' that Queen,...
Wasn't 'Offwidth' used in Advanced Rockcraft? Isn't that the one with a sheridan Anderson cartoon of young Bridwell hanging from a Chicken wing?
Layne Kopischka was the first person I ever heard use the term Chickenwing, btw.
We did a new OW in either '78 or 9 called 'Off in the woods,' ~5.8. It's just past the Nautilus in Vedauwoo. On the formation behind Kevin Rose in that photo of him with his mouth open. The one with the 'eightball' style rock on top. The word "offwidth" was well established by then.
I bet it's never seen a second ascent...
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Nov 21, 2008 - 03:32am PT
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Ed,
> Bridwell uses "off-width" in The Innocent, The Ignorant, And The Insecure; The Rise and Fall of the Yosemite Decimal System 1973
The other version of this article was Brave New World, in Mountain #31, also 1973. I'm not sure which was first.
http://www.stanford.edu/~clint/yos/brave.htm
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grover
Social climber
Canada
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Nov 21, 2008 - 04:25am PT
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Not the first, but an early use in the nord-land.
Stolen from the Squamish Smaill guide 1975.
After a quick scan of the guide I only came across one OW, and they describe it as an "off-size"
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona, Spain
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Nov 21, 2008 - 08:21am PT
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I believe this term was coined when the mosquito man met the elephant woman.
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Jim E
climber
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Nov 21, 2008 - 08:31am PT
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Ed,
I love these sorts of 'factoids' threads.
Your post also got me to wondering about "onsight". The progression is obvious: "on sight", "on-sight", "onsight".
"Onsight" may not be as solidified as "offwidth" yet as I still see all three versions on the web and in print.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Nov 21, 2008 - 09:45am PT
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Jaybro,
I took a look at Robbins' "Basic Rockcraft." In the short section in which he describes offwidth climbing, he only refers to 'wide cracks,' followed by a section on squeeze chimneys (and the drawing of Bridwell with his chicken wing). I couldn't find any references to climbing techniques in "Advanced Rockcraft." As an aside, those books are still really good primers on climbing techniques. I wonder if they are still in print.
Peter Haan did very early ascents of the really hard offwidths in the late 60s and early 70s. He may remember the specific origins, at least in the Valley.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Nov 21, 2008 - 10:23am PT
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I can remember laughing, the first time I heard the phrase awful width. Can't remember the circumstances, though.
I remember spewing positivly about offwidths in C-4 once, when a nearby Brit asked,
"When did you have your brain removed?"
Is the word offwidth used in Galen Rowell's Vertical world of yosemite? Does it have those photos of Mr Gleason on 1096? or was that just in the '73 ascent? I don't have the book handy.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Nov 21, 2008 - 10:29am PT
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Hi,
Yeah "offwidth" was a term that just naturally started being a part of our colloquial language about 1971. It doesn't seem to appear in the Green Roper of 1971 but was in common use in Camp by then. Roper wasn't hanging out anymore and probably would not have approved anyway; he is a craven slave to proper english even today (g).
I remember having to explain what it meant frequently back then. Now we also have the term "The Wide" which in a shockingly unlimited fashion is being used by many offcolor characters such The Fish and Ed Hartouni and Steve Moyles, you know, THAT group.
p.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2008 - 10:29am PT
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Galen's Vertical World of Yosemite published in 1974 contains articles written prior to that date, and features his wonderful images. I don't believe any of those articles use the term "offwidth."
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2008 - 10:30am PT
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I thought I had my normal "olive" color this morning...
"Glory starts at 4-inches"
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