Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 29, 2008 - 03:34pm PT
|
The market is shitting a brick. I had been lamenting pulling out of the market as early as I did, but not anymore. Hope you sold short yesterday, Fatty.
What are the solutions here? Something obviously has to be done, but personally I'm not for anything that doesn't keep the banking industry on the hook if the deal turns bad.
*mandatory partisan edit*
"This morning, McCain backer Mitt Romney told NBC that 'this bill would not have been agreed to had it not been for John McCain....this is a bipartisan accomplishment, a bipartisan success. And if people want to get something done in Washington, they just watch John McCain.'"
Hilariously of course the legislation didn't pass. Welp.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080929/pl_afp/usvote_080929144550
|
|
Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2008 - 04:16pm PT
|
Good!
|
|
UncleDoug
Social climber
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2008 - 04:19pm PT
|
bump.... in the name of irony.
|
|
JacksColdSweat
climber
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2008 - 04:30pm PT
|
it was "bipartisan" until Pelosi opened her big fat mouth before voting. What a jackass!
our elected officials on both sides of the fence suck. Obama sucks. McCain sucks. Dems and Pubs, THEY ALL SUCK!
throwing pork grease on the fire,
JCS
edit:: i can't express how much what Pelosi said prior to voting pisses me off. she has single handedly destroyed this opportunity. fawking brilliant!
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 29, 2008 - 04:37pm PT
|
What's the matter? Something wrong with blaming Clinton?
|
|
maestro8
Trad climber
Sunnyvale, CA
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2008 - 05:31pm PT
|
Something obviously has to be done
Obviously? What's obvious? The only thing that's obvious is that Washington has been monkeying with industry for too long... why not let the free market correct itself?
Precioussss, we musssst have our bailout, yesssss....
|
|
WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2008 - 05:42pm PT
|
Pelosi needed to approach this as an emergency that needed bi-partisan support. Instead she postured in a very partisan manner and blew the deal.
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 29, 2008 - 05:42pm PT
|
"Let the free market correct itself."
What does that actually look like in real life? The actual effects on Americans.
(Also I see it's blame Pelosi day. Good to see you guys have a backup plan.)
|
|
SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2008 - 05:46pm PT
|
It's a good thing this didn't pass.
Why give the foxes in the henhouse $700 billion plus
when they caused the problems. It didn't give but very little relief to those in danger of foreclosure or those who lost their
homes due to unscrupulous lenders, it didn't penalize those who caused the problems, and there was to be virtually no oversight
for Paulson to spend the money as he pleased.
If a bailout is going to be passed, it has to have the above elements including new regulatory oversight so these problems don't occur again.
Contact your legislators and tell them that. SOON!
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2008 - 05:50pm PT
|
I agree with Barney Frank that it's not reasonable to vote against the bailout because your feelings are hurt from a partisan speech. Thats punishing the country.
That said, I'm not sure the bill isn't horsesh#t, and am glad it went down.
who knows how the market would correct itself. Didn't Wachovia fail and get bought today without bailout money? Folks will always loan money. There's billions to make in it if you make good loans.
Peace
Karl
|
|
sandstone conglomerate
climber
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2008 - 05:54pm PT
|
LOL, I love watching Bush's reaction to the vote. I feel bad for the CEO's who won't be getting their multi-million dollar severance packages and golden parachutes. Its good to see Republicans voting like Republicans should: less motherf*#kin government intrusion.
hahahaha you asswipes. fear mongering didn't work this time..too bad it didn't work in 2003
|
|
rockermike
Mountain climber
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2008 - 05:54pm PT
|
Achafalaya's link is a pretty good read. I hate to agree with a libertarian (at least for the most part)but he's close. Transfer ownership away from the crooks FIRST, then talk about government intervention. If bailout is necessary the Gov should take some sort of ownership position and sell off the institutions later when things clean up. Just giving $Trillion to the IvyExecs who run the current firms is idiotic. And if this does spiral into a full-on depression the gov will need the money to re-prime the pump; you can't give the bankers $1 Trillion and still have enough left for other - to the people - rescue efforts. Anyway, if the markets are bad there is no guarantee the bailed out firms will lend any of it anyway. They may chose to just sit on the cash for a while. Meanwhile the Chinese will only let us charge so much to our credit cards.
|
|
JacksColdSweat
climber
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2008 - 06:11pm PT
|
let it crumble. it'll be a hard lesson learned.
"now what are we going to do?"
"we are going to suffer."
JCS
|
|
Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2008 - 06:35pm PT
|
Hey, we are Americans. You can knock us down but we can and will bounce back, and probably be stronger and smarter because of it.
|
|
dogtown
climber
Where I once was,I think?
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2008 - 07:56pm PT
|
I watched the whole thing today with total disbelief. It was a done thing until Pelosi open her trap and pissed off the few Republicans that were going to vote for it.
|
|
TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2008 - 08:00pm PT
|
The problem is that Paulson allowed it to become pictured as a "bailout".
What has to happen is to keep the commercial banking system sound. That requires confidence in that system. Without it, there is no payment system. You don't get a paycheck because your company has to withdraw its cash and buy Treasury Bills. Then it has to get them redeemed for CASH!? And hand you a wad of cash with your deductions voucher.
Karl, you are wrong. No lending is taking place. On top of that it is going global. Libor (3 month eurodollar - that is banks lending other banks money for 3 months hit 5+% which is more than 3% over buying 3 month bills.)
That is a the symptom of a credit problem. Banks do not trust each other. Confidence is what the "bailout" hoped to restore. Unfortunately, the mechanisms are so poorly understood by joe sixpack and representatives and senators Scotch, that they do not have a clue how to put a workable plan together (and get reelected.)
The other major problem is that the current crisis is a trainwreck! Just like a trainwreck there are a whole bunch of contributing causes. Remove just one - make the right decision - and it does not happen. CRA, lenders needing to meet guidelines, financial engineers figuring out how to package, builders building supply, rating agencies, pension funds, credit default structures, failing to recognize that the housing price bubble was about over.
The worst trainwrecks - for example, Chernobyl, are caused by experts who are very certain of their expertise.
All aboard!
|
|
dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2008 - 08:12pm PT
|
Well, the good side is, maybe there will be a BETTER deal now.
There WILL Be a deal.
BTW, some democrats voted against it too, and their feelings were not hurt by Pelosi.
People should hold on and have a little faith. Faith is all the market runs on anyway.
The thing is, they ALL look scared. They will do something right finally, cause they HAVE to.
|
|
TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2008 - 08:13pm PT
|
I left out two more contributing players - the GSEs Fannie and Freddie. And either party had plenty of nays to kill the bill. The Dem nays even outnumbered the Rep ayes.
Perhaps it just takes a little more time to get it right - if we want to give everybody the benefit that he voted his conscience.
|
|
marky
climber
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2008 - 08:16pm PT
|
I'd care, except that I have neither a mortgage, nor a 401(k), nor an IRA, nor any amount of money at all except what's in my pocket
sure sucks to be you worry-warts with money. You guys have it rough.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!