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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 13, 2008 - 10:59pm PT
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I gotta rant...
As a few folks here know, I decided to do a personality profile of an old friend and significant historical figure Barry Bates. Now, if you only climb slabs on the east coast or have never wandered the boulders of Camp 4 you might not know the name and this is fine.
But, if you have ever spent more than a few days in the Valley trying to learn the art of the thin crack or live anywhere near Castle Rock State Park, Granite Canyon or a couple of other boldering hot spots the challenges of Master Bates are legend. And they should be... how about the first 5.11 in the country (New Dimensions) or the ultra-classic Lunatic Fringe or Vanishing Point? Do you have a mantle named after you on Columbia? His kindness of handing over the FA of The Void is perhaps almost unknown, but those of us who have climbed and bouldered with him know Barry to be unusual among climbers when it comes to being polite.
So what?
Well, here's my rant... I contacted the major climbing mags to tell them of my profile (and others that I was considering) and heard nothing. No big deal... I guess the profile of one of climbing's most important historical figures was not worthwhile. I might of left it at that but during the recent Outdoor Retailer show I approached the senior editor of Rock & Ice and she looked at me with a lost face when I mentioned BArry BAtes. She had never heard of him. Like I said, if you don't follow the history of climbing or don't work on thin cracks it may be understandable that you would not know him. But for the senior editor of on of our sports leading magazines to have no clue who established the first 5.11 in the world, well... I thought this was complete crap. I wonder if she knew who Robbins, Bridwell, Dolt or Salathé are? Furthermore, I was told that they would not be interested since their readers are more interested in sport climbing and comps than traditional.
Okay, rant over.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Aug 13, 2008 - 11:26pm PT
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Simon,
I am laughing because I have had similar problems. When Salathe died, I was extremely embarrassed that after several months not one of the magazines had done an obituary on him. I contacted newspaper writer John Flynn and we met up with friends of Salathe. John wrote an article and we were able to get it published in Climbing nearly 6 months after he passed away. I once asked one of the magazines (forget which one) to see if they would be interested in doing a short piece on the Facelift to help get word out there figuring it might make a minor news story. They told me it would cost a dollar something a word. I couldn't believe it. They did call me back later and said that I could get the non-profit rate of about 65 cents a word.
Ken
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Aug 13, 2008 - 11:37pm PT
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When my climbing partner, Colin Nell, was killed on Mt. Brock, I wrote a story celebrating Colin's life as a climber and father. Rock and ice said it was not news worthy and would not publish it.
Climbing Magazine came through, the editor called me for edits and the story was published. Climbing Mag is at the top of my list.
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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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Aug 13, 2008 - 11:54pm PT
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Furthermore, I was told that they would not be interested since their readers are more interested in sport climbing and comps than traditional.
Wow. I knew there was a reason I hadn't bothered renewing my subscription last year.
Have you tried contacting Alpinist?
I'm a bit embarrassed to say that I don't recognize Bates' name either, but this sounds like a profile that I'd love to read.
Heaven forbid someone should learn something new about the history of climbing from a climbing mag.
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Aug 14, 2008 - 12:01am PT
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All I know from Bates is what I've gleaned from the Yo free climbs supertopo. I think its one of those things where a high profile or well known climber is known for some FA's, and the partner maybe falls through the cracks (first ascent of bear creeks arete was Galen Rowell and... who? The other people that helped out on the Nose were... who?). Its unfortunate, and I think all the more compelling reason that his name should be tossed around and his accomplishments discussed.
I know you will want to publish that story, and well you should. However, if no one comes through (I sincerely hope not!) I would love to read it here on the taco. What better place to appreciate the giants of our lifestyles than in the veritable cesspool itself!
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Double D
climber
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Aug 14, 2008 - 12:03am PT
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Barry Bates was probably my biggest inspiration as a young climber. He would glide up problems at Castle Rock that very, very few could do. His numerous mantles took years to follow, if at all. But probably the best thing about Barry...he was totally cool, down to earth and encouraging to us groms. I would see him over the years at the various stores he worked in and always had a warm smile to greet the masses. His pottery-art work was also amazing.
Thanks Barry for all that you contributed to climbing and the climbing community!
Dave D.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Aug 14, 2008 - 12:12am PT
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bump and keep at it Simon
Bates is synomyous with hard bouldering.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Aug 14, 2008 - 12:28am PT
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That's pretty f-ing sad.
As others have said, I hope you'll consider posting it here where it can be truly appreciated. It's pretty amazing that the mags are so willing to follow such a fast-food no substance track.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 14, 2008 - 12:48am PT
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Lemme see?
Bridwell says to us one day during a bouldering session at Columbia boulder in C4 that Barry is the best free climber in the Valley, circa early 70's.
But we already knew that before he spoke .....
Anyways ..... we're all old farts now and why would some pimple faced bouldering sport climber give a sh'it about people back then, eh?
You didn't give a sh'it when mom and dad said; "Hey Lawrence Welk's on and it's good music." Hahahaha
Instead you all listened to that deranged Jimmy Hendrix and Clapton who made cream out of music among many other loud ass dudes that destroyed your ears.
Start your own mag. "Geritol Nation"
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 14, 2008 - 01:00am PT
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What are they gonna repeat?
Climbers want to do new routes .....
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Aug 14, 2008 - 01:08am PT
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what's up with Barry? He used to spend some time at the gym in santa cruz and before that could be found on the glue-ups under the bridges at UCSC (those were tweaker endurance-fests) and of course he could do magic with the most trashed shoes. Even thirty years after his heyday in the Valley the man had fingers of steel and very deliberate, precise footwork. A very low-key and modest person. He seemed to disappear (at least from my radar) maybe 6 years ago.
I understand the point of your post is the sad state of commercial publications in climbing, but, why don't you try out your article on ST -- lots of interest here in learning more about Barry and his contributions.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Aug 14, 2008 - 01:40am PT
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Yeah, it is true. They are going to forget us all. But we knew that even back then. There were enough examples, everywhere. But we did not care; it was all about just climbing and being there. We would always laugh. I doubt if Barry would care even today.
Barry was so personal that thirty five years later of course his image is almost a ghostly petroglyph instead of a vivid emblem guiding young climbers tonight.
Back then, it did not matter, and so now, should we set a trap and expect it to suddenly matter? I think it should but not be shocked that it doesn’t to most. That is how we set it up; we were more “beat poets” than the public athletes of today. And hey, most have forgotten the greats of dorky baseball and football. Simon, just go ahead and write your stuff and put it out---here even. There are lots of us that would thrill to see it. Isn’t that all you need?
Mike, Barry had a pacemaker implanted a bunch of years back, worked through it and had freed himself of a pretty kooky wife too. Saw him at Pacific Edge Gym shortly after the pacemaker. He told me he had been fainting when he stood up and stuff; his heart rate was so very low. He was happy though and wanting to go forward still.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2008 - 02:08am PT
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Wow! I thought my rant would be read and forgotten or perhaps ignored altogether. Thanks everyone for the comments and inspiration. A few thoughts..
BITD I wrote several pieces for Climbing, AAj and even Mountain. I remember getting my first check from Climbing for $35 for a book review and thinking I was rich not to mention hot sh!t. That was quickly followed with another $50 for second place in their photo contest. It made me believe that climbing mags really did care about climbing AND rewarding the contributors. Alas, as the days wore on these checks did not put clothes on the kids so bigger opportunities were pursued.
Kevin nailed it when he made the comment, If there was a mag based in California, as there should be.... I have wondered about this from my very first days of climbing. Cali is one of the top calling cards for climbers worldwide. What climber goes through life never wanting to touch Yosemite cracks and walls? So why has there never been a mag centered around the Valley. As SuperTopo has shown, the stories are there... thousands of them... and the photos too. Oh well, perhaps if I find a few extra notes in the couch I'll put it together myself and print something glorious. I can see it now...each month a new centerfold in pant-filling detail from the Captain's various fright fests.
Without a doubt the only magazine doing the job today is Alpinist. It's like the love child of Mountain and Ascent.
Finally, for those wondering, Barry is happily married and living in far Northern California. He is teaching ceramics at a college. He was happy (but modest) about getting a piece written so I will pursue it even if it enjoyed by only a few. Let the hard-core plastic pullers who sweat if the 1/2" bolts are at knee-level get a woodie by top roping a 30-foot plywood wall covered with sponsor stickers continue to be amazed with the current literature, I'll do this for those who really care; the family of Taco readers!
EDIT: Just to be clear, Peter, I could care less if no one read it. And I sure wouldn't do it for the money (Hah!) I was just pissed that a senior editor in our sport of choice had no idea who Barry was/is and what he contributed. We don't forget everyone just becasue the years pass. We have not forgotten Joe Namath, Babe Ruth, Jean-Claude Killy or even Lawrence Welk. Hell, if we only care about the present then why teach history in schools? I know my youngest daughter is pretty tired of studying the Civil War and Sacajawea so should I let her off the hook?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 14, 2008 - 02:14am PT
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The odd thing is that there's a Canadian climbing magazine called Gripped - which is based in Toronto. You'd think the natural centre for such a thing would be Vancouver or perhaps somewhere near the Rubbly Mountains, but no. Perhaps they gain perspective from that distance - Canadian climbing and climbers are as parochial as everywhere else. But 1/2 of Canada's population is within a day or two drive of Toronto.
Gripped is more of an international magazine with a Canadian flavour, of course. I believe a significant proportion of its sales are international.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Aug 14, 2008 - 04:58am PT
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hey there ihateplastic.... say, until you find someone to put up the article, you can add to the "wait" time, by doing small little "tid-bits" for some smaller newspapers, etc, that are local to where someone was born, or grew up....
i had a few rare times where someone published some of these "memories" on a folks life... (though in my article, it was about living folks).... though others have done articles of those that have passed on---it made for a good "fame came from here" type story and turned out very well...
well, just sharing from end.... it is a good project to try, while you wait... and there really are some folks that will print those---but it is kind of a luck of the draw, to get them....
good luck with all.... and god bless
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 14, 2008 - 09:07am PT
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I was told that they would not be interested since their readers are more interested in sport climbing and comps than traditional.
I dunno ... I've got the July 2008 Rock and Ice right here. Their 5 main articles:
 Birkett and MacLeod "aren't household names and lack big sponsors, but they've quielty upped the ante for hard trad climbing in the UK"
A piece about Maine's Mt Katahdin, "remote, unknown and protected by a scarcity of information ... arctic weather and big, bold alpine rock routes"
Hawaii sport climbing
Story about an expedition to Greenland
Malaysia sport climbing
Seems like a pretty fair mix, IMHO. Good photos throughout. Even the 2 sport articles are out of the ordinary and intriguing to this mostly-trad climber.
I'll bet it is true that the majority of their readers are mostly-gym/sport/boulderers in practice, because that's where the numbers are nowadays. But to give the magazine some credit, their content looks broader than that.
And on another historical note, Alpinist is working on some good stuff as usual.
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rick d
climber
tucson, az
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Aug 14, 2008 - 09:53am PT
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I'll tell you what the shame is,
Mountain Review would have published it. All these other rags are just that.
then there was S.T.A.C.
(grossman might get that one)
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Aug 14, 2008 - 03:52pm PT
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Hey Simon,
I guess I owe you an apology, as I was supposed to send you an email regarding my impressions of Barry Bates. Alas, I never did as I got lost in finishing grad school. Lemme see if I can't make that up. Chris Sharma and I are going to be catching up in a week, maybe I can get him to contribute to your article. He was definitely inspired by Bates, as all of us who climbed at Pac Edge were. Maybe one of those ignorant magazine editors would give your article a second look if it had a quote or two from Chris...
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Aug 14, 2008 - 04:15pm PT
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I remember Barry when he worked at the Cupertino REI. I had him resole a couple pairs of shoes for me.
As others have said, he was a gentle softspoken guy, you'd never have a clue of what he'd accomplished and how well he climbed. Not knowing him well I'd just guess that the climbing was much more important to him than any notoriety.
Yes it's a shame that those that pushed the limits and made breakthroughs in our sport didn't always get the recognition they deserved. And our current batch of magazines are a sorry lot. If an article doesn't tie into a sponsor and hence advertising dollars, why would they want to publish it.
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