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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 2, 2008 - 04:10pm PT
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July 1st, 2008 was not only the 141st birthday of Canada, it was the 150th anniversary of the publication of Charles Darwin's "The Origin of Species". The famous book in which he put forth the theory that species evolve by natural selection. A theory that he and Alfred Russell Wallace both developed, and which has directly and indirectly been the foundation of much of modern science.
A theory, for those not familiar with scientific terms, is something that amongst other things makes predictions that are falsifiable - you can prove that it is wrong. Darwin's theory has become more nuanced, with advances in scientific knowledge, but has never been disproven.
"Intelligent design" and "creationism" are not theories, in that they are not falsifiable.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/darwinbicentenary
Charles Darwin's bicentenary will be in February 2009.
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Floyd Hayes
Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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Abiogenesis--the origin of life from non-life--is falsifiable and has essentially been falsified by EVERY experiment to date, yet most scientists still believe it happened.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2008 - 04:26pm PT
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Yes, when it comes to evolution, and the appearance of single cell life, humans have difficulty with time frames that are in the hundreds of millions if not billions of years.
Some now suggest that single cell life arose several times in the course of the Earth's history, but was obliterated by asteroid impacts and similar catastrophes, only to reappear.
Mix together the right elements (organic chemicals, water, energy - all of which are observed to naturally arise), stir them up occasionally, and wait a VERY long time, and you never know what might happen.
Of course, god may have waved her magic wand the week before last and made it all happen - but that's a matter of belief. It can't be proven or disproven.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Abiogenesis--the origin of life from non-life--is falsifiable and has essentially been falsified by EVERY experiment to date, yet most scientists still believe it happened.
Misinformation alert!!!!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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But was it the Yaghan that purloined the Beagle's whaleboat?
Thats what I want to know.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Pop quiz: How many times does Darwin refer to the word evolution in this book?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2008 - 05:07pm PT
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Ummm, I guess none?
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dirtbag
climber
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"Abiogenesis--the origin of life from non-life--is falsifiable and has essentially been falsified by EVERY experiment to date, yet most scientists still believe it happened. "
Floyd, you know there's a bit more to what scientists have found than this.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Anders, I'll accept none. The very last paragraph (maybe the last sentence) of Origin of Species uses the word "evolved" - the only reference to this word or its relatives.
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Floyd Hayes
Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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If an experiment has produced a living cell from scratch, please let me know (yawn).
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Well I trust they were preceding relatives eeyonkee.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Trivia #2, who was Fitzroy?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Floyd,
the evidence is consistent with both hypothesis, that is, that life formed from non-life, and that life was created by some supernatural act
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dirtbag
climber
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"If an experiment has produced a living cell from scratch, please let me know (yawn). "
Hmmm...as stated above, the basic building blocks have been created in a lab. Add millions of years, a larger "test tube" and a bit of luck and it is entirely conceivable that life would emerge...except of course for those who slavishly follow a legend written by men thousands of years ago. And such a book still ignores changes observed in life on earth over the millions and billions of years since.
Of course, abiogenesis referred orignally referred to obvervations of baby mice crawling out of piles of lenin left undisturbed for weeks. You know this too, I'm sure.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2008 - 06:04pm PT
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Captain (later Admiral) Robert Fitzroy was the captain of the Beagle, on which Darwin voyaged from 1833 - 38. During that time he made the observations which formed the basis for The Origin of Species.
Fitzroy had a distinguished life in public service, and was a devout Christian, but was none too happy about Darwin's work. He later committed suicide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_FitzRoy
The mountain in Patagonia was named for him.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Wake up Floyd! You're the one who's using the term falsifiable. Hmmm, so as you understand the term, if an experiment that is designed to make life from non-life fails, then somehow one can make the claim that making life from non-life has been proved false??? Go back to logic class.
btw, Richard Dawkins has a chapter in The Selfish Gene that addresses the whole beginnings of life issue. Pretty interesting stuff. His take is that it's all in getting the replication process started.
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Floyd Hayes
Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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I'm not saying it never happened! But thousands of experiments have been performed using the appropriate materials and various substrates to produce proteins, DNA, etc., on a step-by-step basis, yet nobody has ever managed to create a living cell in a lab. If you prick the wall or membrane of a living cell and let the contents ooze out, you've got all the constituents needed to make a living cell. But does a living cell ever form when you do it?
There is something like a $100 million dollar prize awaiting the first scientist who can create life in a lab--and it's still unclaimed. If you believe it happened, is your belief based on evidence or on the absence of any other palatable explanation? Is it a scientific belief or is it a philosophical belief? Is it scientific to believe in something you can't explain, demonstrate or falsify?
In contrast with abiogenesis, Darwin's belief that new species evolve is based on an enormous amount of solid, irrefutable evidence. Solid science.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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I guess the only thing I don't agree with Ed H. about are slow Vdub's....lrl
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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crawling out of piles of lenin
yuck!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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don't push it Lynne... I would guess we would disagree about which hypothesis is the correct one...
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