Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Prod
Social climber
Charlevoix, MI
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - May 22, 2008 - 09:19am PT
|
I have a nephew that is graduating (hopefully) High School this year. Great kid, bright, but just not the school type, at least yet. Anyway next fall he is planning on doing a semester Nols course. I was pushing for Patagonia but I think he wants to stay in the states. My next suggestion is South West US. Anyone have experience and recommendations. Should he also be looking at Outward Bounds or other options?
Thanks.
Prod.
|
|
TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho
|
|
|
May 22, 2008 - 10:39am PT
|
If he needs focus, direction and self-reliance, send him to Outward Bound.
If he has raw outdoor skills, genuine interest in responsible wilderness activities and wants to be an outdoor leader, send him to NOLS.
I did a 5 week mountaineering course at NOLS. I was a bit disappointed in the amount of climbing we ended up not doing but it built a platform in me that made it easy for me to go big responsibly in the wild.
If I were to do it over it would be a semester in Baja or the Pacific northwest (which were options BITD). Patagonia would be way cool and would give him skills beyond the outdoor stuff - like travel and dealing with a different culture.
|
|
dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
|
|
|
May 22, 2008 - 10:56am PT
|
The few people I have met who were involved with these schools were all about their control of a group and not so well versed in actual skills like climbing.
|
|
rick
Social climber
california
|
|
|
May 22, 2008 - 12:37pm PT
|
I did the semester Patagonia NOLS back in 1992 and would echo some of the comments above, NOLS is really weak on the technical skills but strong on the 'soft' skills. He will have to learn the technical stuff on his own. Overall great experience, incredible area and wonderful people. If your nephew goes he should stay and travel extensively in Chile/Argentina afterwards, my only regret about the trip is not doing so. Feel free to contact me if you want more info.
Rick
|
|
Prod
Social climber
Charlevoix, MI
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 22, 2008 - 02:22pm PT
|
Hey MZiebel,
Did I mention that he is not a great student. IE "Might be graduating". If that is of no cencern at Prescot send me a line.
On another topic, do you know a Rob Newnan? I think he works for Prescot. I used to guide in the Grand Canyon with him.
Prod.
|
|
scooter
climber
fist clamp
|
|
|
May 22, 2008 - 02:33pm PT
|
I have not attended Prescott, but I would say that would be the best option by far. You should ask the poster, Bob, he is an Alum. And I think he does some occasional instruction for them as well. Maybe that will help, hope so.
Patrick
|
|
MZiebell
Social climber
Prescott, AZ
|
|
|
May 22, 2008 - 02:42pm PT
|
Prescott College seems to attract students who are not cut out for conventional academia: self-directed learners who are through being lectured to and want to "learn with". However, academic standards are high with an emphasis placed on demonstarting competence.
A surprising number of supertaco posters are alumni and I hope they'll consider posting up about their own experiences.
Feel free to have your nephew give me a call at 928-776-5134.
Martin
EDIT: I run the Equipment Warehouse at the college which outfits most field courses - I also teach occasionally.
|
|
Ed Bannister
Mountain climber
Riverside, CA
|
|
|
May 22, 2008 - 02:49pm PT
|
A friend, Erica Lorenzen taught for Nols for years, if you would like i can dig up her email.
Whether with NOLS, or anybody else, Patagonia might not be the best choice, too many bad weather days, especially for someone fresh out of high school. NOLS has great Teton and Alaska programs.
|
|
homemade salsa
Trad climber
west tetons
|
|
|
May 22, 2008 - 02:55pm PT
|
Hi- I teach for both Prescott College and NOLS, but mostly instructor seminars for nols. For either program, the student needs to be self-motivated, esp at Prescott, as every single course (including field block courses) there is a semi-academic element. Sounds like he might not be ready for the Prescott program, at least in the long run- but I'd love to have a beer and discuss this with ya, Martin.
As far as nols semesters go, sure the leadership and group interaction stuff is stressed, but on all the courses I've worked there has been a strong emphasis on the hard skills. Is he more interested in the mountaineering side of things? Then go to Alaska or Patagonia. Rock climbing and winter skills? Rocky Mountain. Warm rock climbing and desert canyoneering, maybe even sea kayaking? The southwest or Sonoran semester. So much depends on the group you end up with, and of course the weather.
Feel free to send me an email for more info/ opinions.
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
May 22, 2008 - 03:51pm PT
|
A NOLS or OB semester course sound like the ticket for him to be sure. What you get out of them is definitely what you put in to them, and also what your expectations are beforehand.
The stereotype is that NOLS is more technically oriented and OB is more "character building" oriented. The reality is that both institutions were built to use challenge to build leadership and problem solving skills and use outdoor adventure as their primary vehicle. How much time you spend on "soft" skills vs "hard" skills will depend more on your instructors and what they choose to focus on than anything else. If you get a shredmaster instructor you won't be spending much time talking about how you feel, you'll be beating yourself numb covering extra miles.
That being said OB has traditionally placed more emphasis on character building and using challenge to meet that end. The classic OB instructor joke when I worked there was: "Cold, wet, tired and hungry? Sounds like you're having a good course."
If you are looking to get purely technical competence, you are much better off hiring a guide. There are numerous "summer camps" for outdoor related pursuits that operate at a high level with very competent guides and you will get more actual climbing, hiking, biking, kayaking or whatever done than in an OB/NOLS course. They will also lack the direct character building, group dynamic and many of the expedition planning skills that are taught at NOLS or OB as well, however. I was fortunate enough to do a 3 week "climbing camp" with Jackson Hole Mountain Guides when I was in high school. Holy crap did we get a lot of climbing done in 3 weeks, but personal attention went something like "stop using so much chalk on that 5.4 pitch you pussy, or else I won't let you have a beer tonight."
Prescott College, of which I am an alumn and once upon a time adjunct instructor, is a great institution and does an excellent job of teaching both technical competence and communication skills. As mentioned, it favors those who have a focus and know what they want to get out of it. There are few (if any) memorize and regurgitate tests, but you will be doing a lot of reading, presenting and writing. It is still college after all, even if you are sleeping on a thermarest. Getting IN to Prescott College isn't that difficult, but getting stuff OUT of it can be if you aren't motivated. For $15k a year (or whatever they charge these days) plus living expenses it isn't a good place to "find yourself."
So in summary, yeah I think if your nephew is in that "not quite sure what he's doing with himself" stage a semester course would be great for him. Location should be dependent on what kind of activities he wants to do and what location/climate inspires him. They don't have any "sucky" course areas.
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
|
May 22, 2008 - 04:33pm PT
|
With 10 years of experience teaching technical mountaineering & rock climbing courses for OB in the Sierra & JT, 25 years of experience in the outdoor education industry, and many professional interactions with Prescott College grads (including my wife, who is currently enrolled there), I would echo HighDesertDJ's view. Nicely summarized.
|
|
MZiebell
Social climber
Prescott, AZ
|
|
|
May 22, 2008 - 04:38pm PT
|
There you have it! Nice summaries, thanks!
Salsa, I'd love to have a beer: Snake River Lager is my all time favorite.
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
|
|
|
May 22, 2008 - 04:48pm PT
|
re: Nols advice?
don't climb under tourist lookouts?
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
May 22, 2008 - 04:53pm PT
|
Poor man's outward bound;
give him a pocket knife and a magnifying glass and drop him off in the middle of the Bob Marshall Wilderness
|
|
TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
|
|
|
May 22, 2008 - 04:59pm PT
|
Who is paying for it?
If he is, it is up to him. Time for him to figure out his future, regardless of who is paying.
Once he is faced with getting employed somewhere, hopefully he figures out what additional education or training is necessary.
|
|
bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
|
|
|
May 22, 2008 - 05:21pm PT
|
i did a nols course in my 30s..awesome experience...i'm not exactly sure what is meant by "hard skills", but my instructors knew their s***; i thought i knew a lot after two decades hunting, fishing, hiking, backpacking, climbing, etc...the emphasis, as the name conveys, is on leadership, leading a group in the backcountry...their literature says upfront that their not into "character building"; they expect their students to have character when they show up
i'm not sure what your nephew's experience is but maybe a full-on semester course isn't the right choice...why not a 30-day course that focuses on his particular area of interest? that should be enough to tell him if he's headed in the right direction
|
|
MZiebell
Social climber
Prescott, AZ
|
|
|
May 22, 2008 - 05:27pm PT
|
I agree with Bookworm: why not try a 30 day course? I've noticed semester courses can end up being too long and not as "impactful"...
|
|
Mick K
climber
Northern Sierra
|
|
|
May 22, 2008 - 06:26pm PT
|
Classic: "Getting IN to Prescott College isn't that difficult, but getting stuff OUT of it can be"
PC it is great place for a kid like that even if it doesn't last until graduation. It just may give him the spark to go on to bigger things. Technical skills are easy to come by. Either NOLS or OB are quality programs. You never know what it mught lead to later in life.
Prescott College 1990
McGeorge School of Law 2000
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
May 22, 2008 - 06:45pm PT
|
Bookworm:
Hard Skills are the old school term for technical skills.
Soft skills are today's communication and leadership skills.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!