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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 27, 2008 - 06:30pm PT
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I just got hold of some new six step Black Diamond aiders. I bought a total of four aiders thinking I'd have two sets of two like my old homemade ones that have worked for years.
But they are staggered. Am I supposed to only need two total, and use the stagger to stand/walk up on each one individually. Perhaps I'm an idiot. Please advise.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Feb 27, 2008 - 06:36pm PT
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The BD's are always staggered... If you want ladders it's Misty or Yates. I recommend Yates, whole-heartedly.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Feb 27, 2008 - 06:46pm PT
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Looks like you'll still want two pairs of aiders, the BD's are staggared but don't have a double set of loops.
I've got an old pair of A5 4 steps paired with w/c 5 steps. I can't see the need for 6 steps unless you're using a cheater stick, and you could just clip your extra aiders into the cheater set.
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Burns
Trad climber
Nowhere special
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Feb 27, 2008 - 07:21pm PT
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Misty Mountain also makes good ladder-style aiders. A lighter and less spendy alternative to the Yates aiders. Last time we took a pair of Yates for the leader and the Mistys for the follower (they've got the elastic for jugging). If you're going to be spending a lot of time in aiders, the Yates are great. If you want to stash them in a pack for the few aid pitches on an otherwise free climb, the Mistys are the ticket. I never did like stagger style aiders. I got really pissy at my partner on the last pitch of the nose cause he made me use them (he used my Mistys) and I thought they were crap.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Feb 27, 2008 - 07:27pm PT
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I use two pair, which is slower and more clusterf*cked but easier. There is any number of techniques to use from a single aider - the Euro style which dangles from a cord and fifi hook - to four like me. Experiment and figure out what works best for you, but remember that the two- and three-aider methods usually involve unclipping and moving aiders, which can result in you dropping them if you're not super-careful.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Feb 27, 2008 - 09:11pm PT
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2 pairs, each pair attached to a daisy. For hard aid, you really want to be as comfortable as possible. Once you get used to the system, it's not a cluster.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 27, 2008 - 10:03pm PT
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Email Jello for a Clean Walls video.
You can rethink the whole double aider system.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Idaho
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Feb 27, 2008 - 10:39pm PT
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I've been rotating three, but they are straight-ups, I am not into BD stagger step crap...
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couchmaster
climber
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Feb 27, 2008 - 10:51pm PT
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Fish has started to make the ladders as well.
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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 28, 2008 - 11:19am PT
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Thanks fellas. I've been thinking of sending them back to REI and getting a couple pair of ladder style. Do you guys know how much Russ wants for the FISH ladders? I also got a couple Easy Daisies and I think I like 'em. Just dangled in my garage a bit but they seem kinda trick. Any input on 'em?
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Prod
Social climber
Charlevoix, MI
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Feb 28, 2008 - 11:28am PT
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Fish's system below... Note the aiders are not daised in, which makes life alot easier.
"Leader checks to see that he is on belay and starts either freeclimbing or looking for the first nut placement. If free climbing just continue on and place pro as needed, hanging if necessary (holster your pride and go for the summit, not some ego crap that might jeopardise your chances) and watching for the next belay. If the leader is aiding the pitch, use your daisy chain to attach yourself to the high nut before placing it. This method is twofold: dropped gear will not be lost and if the piece you are standing on blows, the pro on your daisy might catch you before a real ripper sets in. So, with the high nut in, clip in your aiders and adjust so they are against the wall. Step into the lowest rung of the aiders and start to apply weight. If nothing happens, start bouncing a little and then a lot on the piece to test it. Ok, it's holding. Now climb up the aider to the second step and clip in short to your waist. I use a small runner or quickdraw for this first clip at my waist. I now release my daisy chain from the piece and just drop it so it can hang out of the way. Get adjusted in the aiders and then clip in close, a single biner away from your harness. Relax and start looking for the next piece. Pick the next piece and attach it to your long daisy. Place it as high as you can and give it a jerk or two to make sure it is set. Clip your second pair of aiders directly into the piece under your daisy so they lay flat on the wall. Clip the lead line into the piece you are standing on. Repeat the above, releasing your waist clip in as you go, and at about half way up your aiders, grab the set you were standing on on and clip them to your harness or gear sling. Repeat this about 35 times and the pitch is in the bag."
Prod.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Feb 28, 2008 - 11:29am PT
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Blatant plug from the catalog:
New Ladder Aiders!
A new ladder style aider is now available. We decided to go with a 3/4" nylon webbing on these ladders to avoid the weight issue that is the downfall of other manufacturers "ladder style" aiders. Each ladder only weighs 9.5 ounces and is 76" in overall length. Features include a burly double thickness bottom step, a sub 2Step and a sub TopStep for maximum reach. A full strength grab loop completes the set up. Contrasting colors on the steps. Each pair is the same color scheme. Order two pairs and we will make sure you have two distinct color patterns. If you already own a set of Fish Smart Aiders, the steps on our new Ladder Aiders will match up with each step of the Smart Aiders.
We sell the Ladder Aiders as a pair, at an intro price of $50.00 a set. If you just can't live without 1" wide webbing steps, add $7.00 per pair and we will make them up using 1" webbing instead of the 3/4" webbing for the body and the steps.
Available on our Big Wall Page in the catalog.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 28, 2008 - 11:35am PT
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They look pretty well thought out.
Nice job Russ.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Feb 28, 2008 - 11:48am PT
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Those FISH ladders look great.
I don't like staggered aiders either.
The harder the climbing the more aiders I use. 1-2 aiders for the occasional aid moves on less than vertical or stuff I can almost free. 3 aiders for me most of the time (with big biners that make good handles). I don't daisy them in and haven't lost one yet, knock on wood. 4 aiders for really steep or hard where it pays to stay on both feet most of the time. The lower the number of aiders the faster you can go on easier stuff, more aiders for comfort and leverage on harder stuff.
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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 28, 2008 - 01:45pm PT
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Man those look nice Russ. But I'd Rather support REI and the conglomerate Big Brother rather than the some small grassrotts "made by climbers for climbers" outfit. REI and Wal-Mart are good for the economy,,,,and they giftwrap,,,,,,and lead interpretive hikes through our foothill ecosystems on weekends. Russ, do you offer eco-friendly dayhikes for outdoor beginners that raise awareness to the fragility of our pastures and sub alpine flora? You shouldn't even try to compete with that. And they have meatless hotdogs and balloons for my kids on the Father's Day Sale day. Do you offer anything like that?
Ok, you had me at "Full Strength grab loop."
I'll return them and get that baby bikeseat my wife wants, then I'll pony up for the small guy and get a set of ladders. Thanks. Can I get some stickers too, honestly, for my motorcycle helmet?
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Feb 28, 2008 - 03:30pm PT
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John Yates explained his three ladder system to me once. It made good sense.
I hate traditional etriers, especially for free hanging stuff when there is wind. Somehow they always get twisted up.
Gotta love the ladders. I only have the Yates, but the Fish ladders look fine, and I think they must be a bit cheaper than the Yates. Never saw the Mistys, and doesn't Metoleus make some too?
Anyway, one time out with the ladders and you'll be getting rid of your old triangular etriers.
Disclaimer:
I'm not a real aids climber, cause I hate aids climbing. To me it is a last resort. But I have unfortunately had to do free hanging out under a roof aiding, and along a wall and roof aid on FAs. Now that I'm too weak and fat and near death to free climb much, I may have to take up aid climbing on a more regular basis.
If only HJ would stop wasting time posting in the political threads and get those hammers done!
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BriGuy
Trad climber
SL,UT
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-----Yates speed ladders vs. FISH ladders
Anyone have experience using both and care to comment on the differences....adv/disadv?
The top several steps on the FISH ladders are closer together and this seems like a possible good adv. They are lighter, more compact, mabey not as comfy being 3/4".
I've used the Yates and I like them, but just wondering if anyone has experience with both styles and cares to comment.....
Thanks
Brian
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the museum
Trad climber
Rapid City, SD
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Isn't that Russ a great guy? Custom aiders!! Just think if REI made custom gear. There would be n00bs everywhere in the wild with a bunch of new age funky crap!!
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Kupandamingi
Trad climber
Berkeley
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I have the bulk yates ladders and like them. They never seemed too bulky, perhaps because when I got them I also switched from a 4 aid cluster f*ck to a two aider system with one floater for traverses - so they were comparatively better. Don't aid enough to validate buying a lighter set. The technique in the video Ron is referring to revolutionized aid climbing for me (from pathetically slow to just slow) and encouraged me to switch to a two aider system. Tough Im still unwilling to abandon my daisies, I do use them less in the intermediary steps
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