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Omot
Trad climber
The here and now
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 5, 2008 - 02:42pm PT
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This is worth a look if you haven't heard Michelle Obama speak before. She articulates alot of the frustration many people have with the direction of our country: the widening gap between rich and poor. And she seems sincere.
[url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4067037122361444194
"]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4067037122361444194
[/url]
I'm a silicon valley engineer and have a hard time making ends meet these days. I can't even imagine what it's like for millions of less fortunate folks in this country. Can Obama make a difference? I don't know, but I'm willing to give him a chance.
Enjoy,
Tomo
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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If you're an engineer in California having troubles making ends meet, shouldn't you be supporting TAX CUTS?
I have watched her speak. I have a certain bias against liberal policies, but to me she came off as mean-spirited and negative. Her husband's a better, more inspirational speaker if that's what you want to hear.
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John Moosie
climber
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"shouldn't you be supporting TAX CUTS"
Not if they go towards the wealthy.
Not if they undermine programs that actually help people, instead of war.
Not if they lead to higher deficits which makes us vulnerable.
If you blindly support tax cuts, then you get people like George Bush, or McCain, who will just give you more war. Is that really what you want so you can save 400 dollars a year on your taxes ? While incurring a gain of over 2000 dollars a year in new national debt. How do you plan to pay off the national debt?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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"How do you plan to pay off the national debt?"
By reducing Federal spending on domestic programs and foreign aid.
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ahad aham
Trad climber
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"By reducing Federal spending on domestic programs and foreign aid."
excellent idea bluething. let's start with cutting off Israel & Egypt... save a few bucks there
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John Moosie
climber
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Which republican do you think will actually do that without increasing spending on the military ?
The debt in the last 50 years has gone up MORE under republicans then it has under dems. Maybe you should rethink your plan.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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ahad, finally I agree with you on something. But let's not stop there (in terms of paying out aid to countries).
John, prolly Romney.
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Omot
Trad climber
The here and now
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 5, 2008 - 03:34pm PT
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Bluering,
I do support tax cuts, for those who need them the most. That does not include me, BTW. I am making ends meet, but I have noticed the erosion in my buying power the last 5-6 years.
I'm sure you noticed which programs are targeted for cuts in the administration's proposed budget in order to ONLY have a $400B deficit. The redistribution of wealth in this country from the poor and middle classes to the rich continues. This is unfair to those less fortunate folks, and is unhealthy for our economy and democracy in the long-term. This is the frustration Obama is tapping into. It is a vast reservoir of discontent, so who knows what will happen.
Tomo
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fairweather
Mountain climber
Roseville, CA
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If we are going to overspend, I can't think of a better place to do it than on defense of this country. Everything else is irrelevant, if we stop protecting our citizens. I would much rather pay for more F22's than fund another social program.
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Hootervillian
climber
the Hooterville World-Guardian
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maybe it's the oft reference to 'moving the bar' that has some folks feeling a little threatened; literally, figuratively, mixilogically.....
other than that, 50 min. of discernible content is quite the treat compared to CSPAN's usual cast.
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tooth
Mountain climber
B.C.
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funny thing how all this defense spending lately has left the millitary with no ready reserves, more threats, and what tired depleated troops are left are nowhere near the US, even if beefed up defense was needed.
How many of the half a million people that have been massacred in Iraq lately would have made it to the US and gotten a visa and done something bad? How many Pakistani's are Getting US visas now? (isn't that where AlQaida is headquartered?)
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fairweather
Mountain climber
Roseville, CA
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Khanom - I know it may be a tough concept for you to grasp, but there are plenty of people who wish us harm and have the funding to do so. Wars are never won by appeasing the enemy. Go get a job, then maybe you will feel you have something worth protecting. Otherwise, just keep your head in the sand, and wait for your next government handout.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, Ca
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From Obaba's website:
"Obama believes that the first place to look for ways to strengthen Social Security is the payroll tax system. Currently, the Social Security payroll tax applies to only the first $97,500 a worker makes. Obama supports increasing the maximum amount of earnings covered by Social Security and he will work with Congress and the American people to choose a payroll tax reform package that will keep Social Security solvent for at least the next half century."
So folks who make less than 97.5 will most likely happily stick it to the "rich" on this one. But That amount of income is just middle class in a lot of the country, like NYC and most of CA. And it is a two for the price of one tax increase because the employers have to match it. This little deal here could be one of the biggest single tax increases in our history, and directed exactly at the wrong target too.
What really stuns me about this policy statement is that he says "The First Place..." No effort to look for wasted funds, bloated oversized bureaucracy, or investigation of how we raid the SS fund for other gov't spending. Investigating what is actually going on with the billions already in play does not even get lip service.
"The first thing ... is the payroll tax system... "
Oh, how about his plan to give anyone making under 75K a $500 prize if they put 1K in a savings account?!
Hope and change, and eloquent speaking skills are not policy. I want to like the guy, he is really amazing. His policies however are just plain nuts.
Wake up America, this guy is a died in the wool socialist. Want a full on nanny state? Here we go.
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John Moosie
climber
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The problem with too strong of a military is that then the power hungry are tempted to use the military to solve problems. Problems that often aren't solvable with military force. Such as drugs, or terrorism.
Good luck with McCain. More war in 08, 09, 10,11,12,13,14,15,16,...........3008. Have fun with the national debt.
oops, we ran out of money just like Russia did.
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Omot
Trad climber
The here and now
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 5, 2008 - 04:42pm PT
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Hi LEB,
I think it was Schwarzenegger who said (I paraphrase) "I used to believe everyone must pull themselves up by their bootstraps, until I realized not everyone had boots." If you believe there are poor people in this country who could be bought boots with some government spending, don't you think it is a good investment?
The rich have gotten their tax cut at the same time we've racheted up spending for war. I don't see how this debt can be good for our country in the long term.
BTW, I've long been an independent and fiscally conservative, but the Republican math hasn't added up for, oh, the last 20 years. I was hopeful about McCain, but he has pandered so much in the past year or so, I don't know what to believe from him. The new ethicist seems to be Obama.
Tomo
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John Moosie
climber
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How about we meet somewhere in the middle?
Social programs should be examined to see if they really reach their target, this should include schools and hospitals.
The military should be strong enough to repel boarders, but not break us fiscally.
To do this, we need to get back to holding people accountable for their actions. We need to get away from making every decision based on short term bean counting. We don't hold our politicians accountable because it is "too hard". So we end up with bush/cheney.
We don't hold our teachers accountable, because it cost too much and is too hard. So we end up with a poor school system.
Lets get back to holding people accountable. In both our schools, and our politics.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, Ca
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" ...The new ethicist seems to be Obama... "
Wow. Giving people 500 if they put away 1000 is not an ethic. It's pandering. Also, it is a promise he knows he cannot keep. Just like getting out of Iraq fast. Another lie.
If he gets elected, he'll have my support because his is our President. But check back on the progress with all his promises in about 3 years. Good luck.
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John Moosie
climber
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Your understanding of Libs is out of date Lois. We are for fiscal responsibility. It the Repubs who are out of balance at this time.
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dirtbag
climber
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Who should I vote for then, if not Obama?
I don't like Hillary and the baggage she brings.
The best Repubs "only" are chompin at the bit to start the next war. Some flip flop to kiss the religious right's ass, and others are pretty loony.
No one perfectly matches my beliefs.
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