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Wheatus
Social climber
CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 18, 2007 - 02:04pm PT
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Recently there has been an increasing trend of climbers wondering around JTree with their dogs. This last Saturday at Josh I saw at least two unleashed dogs with climbers wondering around the desert. Another longtime Josh climber told me that they saw a ranger calling out to a climber about their dog in the Real Hidden Valley. The climber ran away but the ranger caught up with her. This kind of child-like behavior hurts all of us who love to climb at JTree.
Rules for Dogs at JTree:
The rules for all National Parks require dogs to be: ON A LEASH ONLY IN CAMPGOUNDS OR PARKING LOTS! Dogs cannot be on trails or in the backcountry for any reason.
The rangers are seeing more climbers breaking the laws and damaging the environment in National Parks. We damage vegetation with numerous approach trails, with bouldering pads, belay locations and descent routes. We, as climbers, are walking on thin ice with the Park Service as well as other land managers and owners.
If climbers keep breaking the rules the Park Service will limit or ban climbing. Believe me, the Park Service have the power and will. Remember when Hueco Tanks was unregulated to climbers? Or maybe the Park Sevice will find some endangered plant, insect, amphibian, or animal to justify banning climbing (Williamson Rock rings a bell)to punish us for our transgressions.
Please keep your dog at home. Respect the rights of other climbers; play by the Park Service rules, stay on trails, be very careful to avoid damaging vegetation, be respectful of the rangers,.....just try to be a ambassador of good will that represents climbers as responsible, humble and environmentally conscience. Otherwise we could have our assumed rights yanked by the authorities so fast that he only place left will be the some indoor gym.
P.S.
Don't get me wrong I have nothing against dogs. I love dogs. My two female dogs are better companions than most of the two legged human variety. Their more loyal, always accepting and loving, and always excited to see me. But they stay at home when I go climbing.
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bryan howell
Boulder climber
san diego, ca
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Nov 18, 2007 - 04:17pm PT
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WOW! I thought I was the only one!
I was in RHV this weekend as well, and as we were cooking dinner last night, up walks a nice friendly four legged eating machine. He promptly b-lines to the table with all our food sitting out, and knocks our chips/salsa off and starts devouring!!! No owner in site or anybody to claim. We shooshed him off, but he quickly came back.(this time I beat him to the steaks to protect our meat)!!!
I called out into the night "whoever lost there dog, please come get it!"
no response. This dog must have wondered around RHV for around an hour until I finally heard some voices calling out from the back loop area for what I assumed to be there dog. no clue he had gone and was site hoping and food plundering!
Not fun for us! keep the mutts at home!
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Nov 18, 2007 - 04:22pm PT
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Now see, you should have just beat the crap out of the dog, and then bar-b-qued it.
If all dogs caught in Jtree were eaten, that would solve the problem.
This is probably the beginning of the end, cause a large group of dog owners NEVER listens to reason, and they will take their dogs any where they want, no matter how it affects everyone else. They think this is their god given right.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Nov 18, 2007 - 04:37pm PT
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Do yer doooty wes, eat a dog at a climbing area today!
Oh, and are you really a moron, or do you just play one on the internet?
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 18, 2007 - 05:18pm PT
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Oh, and are you really a moron, or do you just play one on the internet?
Wes plays other people on the Internet.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Nov 18, 2007 - 05:30pm PT
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I concur.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 18, 2007 - 05:47pm PT
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No moron, though.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Nov 18, 2007 - 05:57pm PT
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Wes plays other people on the Internet.
That's a sad life.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Nov 18, 2007 - 05:58pm PT
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perhaps you could have said in the title "if you can't follow the rules leave your dog a home". I don't take offense to your post. I will still (have) to bring my dog to JTree. But I realize I am limited. Though... I'm also lucky that I have a place to drop her off if needed. For instance, I can climb all over Indian Cove... err... well lots of places.. and have my dog with me legally.
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Eastside
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Nov 18, 2007 - 06:36pm PT
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Of those dogs wondering around Jtree, did any of them figure it out and quit wondering? Or did they just want to see the Wonderland?
(Sorry, had to do it.)
Seriously, was one of them a small, longish haired, really cute tri-colored girl? Accompanied by an owner of about the same description? (Sage & Laura) If so , I'll call her and talk to her, again.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Nov 18, 2007 - 06:40pm PT
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Go home....heal.....roll over.......go home.....
I believe dogs should be left at home......but if you don't have a home , or any friends.....and you just have your faithful mutt.....well;......I feel differently about that situation;.....and alot of people find themselves in that scene.....it's a tough call.....
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Nov 18, 2007 - 07:24pm PT
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well as a dog owner and a climber who enjoys his dogs company, someone is going to have to 'splain to me the logic of these fire alarms going of around here.
how exactly are climbers with dogs a threat to climbers in general?
do climbers smoking pot also inspire threaten your access?
both activities draw the negative attention of law enforcement, but typically only upon the participants, as far as i can tell (i invite you to prove me wrong).
so dog owners who break the rules wrt dogs risk fines, increaed fines, and possibly harsher dog related rules in the parks, but nobody is going to revoke access to CLIMBERS because a few of them have dogs, they may just raise the fines if they decide that we need a greater incentive to leave the dogs at home.
too bad every dog is not my dog...
(poor guy is losing a toe tomorrow!)
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bryan howell
Boulder climber
san diego, ca
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Nov 18, 2007 - 08:22pm PT
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the dog that visited me was a medium type dog, darker. It was dark outside, but I believe it was black/brown. looked like mutt. as stated, no owner in site.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Nov 18, 2007 - 08:26pm PT
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I'm telling you, the answer is Bar-B-Que.
Dog tastes a lot better than chicken I hear.
And remember, every dog that is eaten will never trouble you at the crag again.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Nov 18, 2007 - 08:38pm PT
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I never could understand the severe restrictions placed on dogs in a place like Joshua Tree that's lousy with coyotes.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Nov 18, 2007 - 08:39pm PT
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He wrote: ". . . how exactly are climbers with dogs a threat to climbers in general?"
Not the point. Some don't like dogs. The "reason" they don't like dogs is that tastes differ.
JL
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Nov 18, 2007 - 08:47pm PT
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Teddy in noncompliance of the leash law of the Gunks....
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 18, 2007 - 09:32pm PT
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Separate from the benefits they provide to (some) humans, and their impacts on humans, dogs can have impacts on wildlife. The impacts are both direct (chasing, barking, hunting, even killing) and indirect (scent). Plus digging and other such behaviours. To vulnerable wildlife, dogs smell the same as coyotes and wolves - predator! And wildlife have extremely sensitive senses of smells. Coyotes are native to Joshua Tree - dogs aren't.
When dogs have or might have negative impacts on the natural environments of areas that are ostensibly being protected for those natural values, that's a valid reason to manage or prohibit them. Even their scent spooks mountain sheep and other animals, and I've never heard of a scent-less dog, on leash or not.
Looking at it another way, coyotes like to eat dogs. In much of Joshua Tree, unleashed dog = Wil. E. dinner. So maybe people should be allowed to let their dogs run free there - as long as it's at night.
We have enough unavoidable impacts on the places we cherish. Why bring avoidable ones?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 18, 2007 - 10:50pm PT
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Aw come on!
The coyotes love those little ankle biters.
Midnight snacks for the coyotes
Midnight entertainment for everyone within earshot.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Nov 18, 2007 - 11:12pm PT
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Throw another dog on the fire
shlap another schnake on the grill
The dogs are not the problem,
it's the clueless owners. Morons should
not own dogs. Dogs are a big responsability and a liability.
If a dog is not 100% socially adjusted with humans and other dogs, leave them home.
The coyote's will cull them if you do not take responsibility. We were hoping one particular yippy dog would attract the coyote's in Jumbo rocks.
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