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john hansen
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 13, 2007 - 10:29pm PT
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Looking at that picture of Harding and Powell in the "Dolt " thread got me thinking,, Harding has a leather pad on his shoulder for rappelling.
They must have rapped and prussiked hundreds of pitches going up and down on that route. It had never occurred to me that they did not even use a double biner break bar or something other than the old "under the leg over the shoulder thing" ... did they back up with a prussik?
I remember learning to rapell with a double biner set up and then later a carbiner with a break bar,and finally a figure 8, which I thought did the job great. We always ran the rope behind us in a kind of hip belay,,just in case.
A while back in the swami belt thread I asked Largo "you mean to tell me you did the NIAD wearing swami's?"
"you betcha" was his reply.
Its no wonder those guys back in the 50's were more like steelworkers, and engineers then the modern day free climber. Rapping like that is hard frigging work.
So the question is..
What were the first rappelling devices, and when and where did they originate(caving?) and what was the order they were introduced up to the present day.
Any body got pictures like the piton threads? What device do you use?
Ken, you got any old wierd stuff that never quite caught on?
Seeing Powell's jacket in that photo looks like he could of used a shoulder pad too!
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Nov 13, 2007 - 10:39pm PT
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Man! That was some creepy s%!t they had do deal with for sure! I did a Dulfersitz rappel and was sure I'd never have kids...in fact i never did...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 13, 2007 - 10:40pm PT
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I suspect Gary Storrick would be the one to ask even if he doesn't address history explicitly.
http://storrick.cnchost.com/VerticalDevicesPage/Glance2007.html
Every now and then my reverso ends up in the trunk instead of on my harness and I just revert to hip belaying and rapping with biners as brake bars (not something I'd want to explore with wiregates...).
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rockermike
Mountain climber
Berkeley
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Nov 14, 2007 - 01:07am PT
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I dulfersitzed out of our backyard cherry tree a bunch of times. No No No fun. My dad and I were the first in line to get those new fangled rappel bars. Those were the first gizmos I ever saw. I think they proceeded the carabiner cross bar system.
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Nov 14, 2007 - 02:23am PT
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Classic Jody! (Albeit painful...)
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Nov 14, 2007 - 11:12am PT
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Oh yeah the good ol' Dulfersitz. Originated in the Alps. Why do you think those guys yodel?
My belay/rap evolution;
Dulfrsitz
doubled crabs
brake bar
[edit to add;
Muenter hitch
Stitch plate]
figure 8
Tuber
Reverso
and now the latest and greatest
the Toucan
by Simond
I am old schoolie enough that I never liked those overly mechanical Gri-Gri like devices that allow for the inattentive belay styles I see too much of.
I still know how to hip belay and Dulfersitz, but that Toucan is the finest "device" I have ever used.
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scuffy b
climber
The deck above the 5
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Nov 14, 2007 - 11:40am PT
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Third-hand story from way back:
Preparing for the 2nd ascent of the Nose, the team, which had
learned to do the carabiner brake, agreed to take the (unusual
for them) step of using prussik slings to back up their rappels.
A sign of their uncertainty and of the seriousness of their
undertaking.
One of them, I think I heard it was Fitchen, had a fluke brake
failure and was saved by his prussik.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho
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Nov 14, 2007 - 11:54am PT
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I'm so old school that I like to know how to do things without technology "just in case". I forced myself to Dulfersitz for a few weeks one summer even though I had all the other toys. It's really not that bad once you get used to it.
After a while you start to like it tee-hee-hee-hee.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Nov 14, 2007 - 01:31pm PT
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Dulfersitz rappels can be tolerable on low-angle descents and on slightly steeper stuff for short distances, but I would really like to hear from somebody who used that technique more than once on anything steep.
One method that hasn't been mentioned so far, and is the simplest, least gear-intesive of all, is a munter on locking biner. Munters have a tendency to put kinks in the rope (as do figure 8s), but Jim Nelson (who knows a thing or two about ropes and such) tells me that if you do it right, it's kink free.
Personally, I've switched to the TRE, a German-made device that does pretty much anything a gri-gri will do, but is designed for two ropes, and is great for trad and alpine. It'll lock off a free hanging rappel on twin 8s, but you can throw rope through it just as fast as through an ATC. I've used them now for three years and the only drawback is that they're a total pain in the ass with fat (i.e. anything much over 10mm) ropes. Hard to find in the US, but check www.tre-pfullingen.de/html/sirius_e.html for some info.
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gdstorrick
Trad climber
PA
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Nov 14, 2007 - 05:48pm PT
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Although I have collected a few rappelling and ascending devices (you can see a few on my web site, the quick glance is at http://storrick.cnchost.com/VerticalDevicesPage/Glance2007.html);, I have not done a serious academic study of the history of rappelling devices. What I will say here is certainly incomplete, but perhaps still of some interest.
Before I start, keep in mind that I am primarily a caver and climbing is a distant second. Cavers use rappelling as a primary means of transportation to go down in a cave, while climbers use rappelling as an incidental aid to their main objective: going up. Cavers do moderate (150-500 foot) and long (500-1500 foot) rappels, with the occasional very long rappel (3000 feet and up) done on convenient cliffs for no reason at all. Climbers rarely do anything more than a short rappel of 150 or 200 feet. Cavers rappel in wet and muddy conditions in the dark, climbers prefer clean ropes on nice days in the sunlight - but it does not always work out that way. Cavers can justify carrying heavier gear than climbers can. Canyoneers are another group. Their rappels are often short (under 200 feet) and often very wet. Then there are the industrial rappellers (window washers, etc.); much of our equipment does not meet OSHA specs, their equipment does and is often laughable from our perspective (e.g., its weight). The military commandos also rappels, using techniques appropriate when the concept of acceptable losses applies. Then there are people that call themselves “sport” rappellers, a concept that I do not understand as anything more than a way to waste time. To each his or her own, there is no one size fits all.
Now for the evolution of descenders. There are rappel devices that date back to the 1500s-1800s, but they never became popular or else dropped out of production. I would guess that around the mid-1900s, the duflersitz or body rappel was the preferred means. Bill Cuddington introduced cavers to rappelling and prusiking in 1952. Until then, cavers used cable ladders (we still do) or block & tackle.
Around 1955, Dean Abbott developed the idea of the rappel log- a wooden spool- and in 1956, Bob Geil made the first working prototype out of the limb of a catalpa tree. Locust soon replaced catalpa as the preferred log, although bowling pins also became popular sources for the wood. Dwight Deal, who documented the history of the rappel log, recently donated his (vintage 1957) to my collection - it will appear on my web site someday. Rappel logs were not suitable for nylon rope (which melted), but once “burned in,” worked quite well on manila rope. Preston Haupt (1959) reports one instance where a caver soaked a log in linseed oil before rappelling into Catawba Murder Hole. The heat ignited the oiled log, which burned with a 3-inch flame. By the 1960s, rappel spools were metal; I patterned my first spool after Bill Cuddington’s spool shown in Bill Halliday’s Depths of the Earth (1966).
Not everyone upgraded to the rappel log. I do not know when, but by the time I was born, a carabiner on the seat sling had replaced the body rappel’s loop under the thigh. Gaston Rébuffat recommended it in “Starlight and Storm” (1956),.and Dan Bloxsom & C. Link illustrate it in an article that Bob Thrun believes is the earliest article on Prusiking to appear in a US caving publication (Cumberland Grotto, Technicalia, 1956). All of this was in the 3/4” manila rope days, and the carabiner method was especially destructive to manila rope. The next step was probably to twist the rope around the carabiner; much like the military did when I took ROTC (and maybe still does). Remember, acceptable losses. The next obvious step was to use three carabiners (Bill Plummer, 1959) to spread the twist out; almost no one remembers how to rig this one (I do, it’s handy).
Meanwhile, the European climbers invented a few things. Pierre Allain made his first prototype in 1947 and started selling it a few years later. The earliest American reference to this descender I have found is in the 1964 Windy City Speleonews, and that shows the later of the two versions in my collection. Trevor Peck developed a descender as well. IF YOU KNOW WHERE I CAN GET ONE, PLEASE TELL ME!!
The earliest commercial figure eight that I know of was the Fisher eight advertised in the June 1963 issue of Mountain Craft. I have one of these eights on my web site, along with a copy of the ad. Alan Blackshaw’s book Mountaineering, from Hill Walking to Alpine Climbing (1965) shows a later-model Fisher 8, a Pierre Allain trident, and a Peck Descender. I also have a noncommercial figure eight developed independently in the USA by Gary Kirk in 1965 (Gary did the “Word Play” feature in the old Off Belay magazine). The earliest ads for commercial figure eights in the USA that I have seen are from the early 1970s (CMI ads appeared in 1974), but Bill Craig reported seeing an eight for sale in the Adirondacks in 1965 (for $3.50; his sketch looks like the original Fisher eight). By 1968, Keith Liken wrote that they had been “used for years.”
I am not sure when people invented the brake bar, or when they figured out that they could use a carabiner as a brake bar. Brake-bar-like ideas had been around a while, e.g., Sam Geffner’s 1961 idea. Dick Sanford did a detailed mathematical analysis of the single brake bar method in 1964, and Bill Plummer described the double brake bar method in the same year. I learned to use them at the Philmont Boy Scout ranch in 1971. Most people thought brake bars were dangerous. In 1966, John Cole invented the rappel rack (as did at least one other caver, working independently), which is still the best rappelling device on the market (too bad it is too heavy for climbing). Most people do not know how to use a rack properly, and my observation is that most people who do not like it for reasons other than size, weight, or cost fall into that group. The first rappel racks used commercial (Gerry) brake bars, so the brake bar was commercially available by then.
The bobbin is an old idea as well, with the first US reference I know of being the February 1968 NSS News.
Before 1956, people suffered with body rappels. In the next decade, many new ideas appeared. Since 1966, there has been no real progress in rappelling. Small improvements, yes, and introduction of better materials and minor variations, yes, but nothing to match the jumps made in the decade mentioned. My last pit? 240 feet, all underwater; I dove.
----> Gary
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gdstorrick
Trad climber
PA
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Nov 14, 2007 - 05:52pm PT
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PS: Who is that in FMIC? Nice to see a picture again; I haven't been there in ages.
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MAD BOLTER
Trad climber
CARLSBAD,NM
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Nov 14, 2007 - 07:43pm PT
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I have at least 72 miles of rappelling practice and decided to use a back-up hip belay system simultaneously with my single brake bar home made device. I also use the USHBA ascender-lock device to stop enroute and easily resume. It requires addition of a release lever to be attached to the USHBA. You can use the rope with a biner and NO harness to rappel safely. You cannot come out of the rig. You figure this out!!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 14, 2007 - 08:02pm PT
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I believe Yvon Chouinard started as a rappeller, or what would now be called a sport rappeller.
In the early 1970s, MSR (?) made some sort of rappelling gadget. It was machined out of aluminum, flat, and red. Sort of an oblong block, maybe 15 cm x 10 cm x 2 cm. It had many holes in it, and a couple of screws/bolts sticking out the side.
I once saw a European descend a rope by wrapping the rope a couple of times around one wrist, passing it over his back, then wrapping it around the other wrist. Don't remember if he used gloves
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gdstorrick
Trad climber
PA
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Nov 14, 2007 - 09:50pm PT
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> In the early 1970s, MSR (?) made some sort of rappelling
> gadget. It was machined out of aluminum, flat, and red. Sort
> of an oblong block, maybe 15 cm x 10 cm x 2 cm. It had many
> holes in it, and a couple of screws/bolts sticking out the
> side.
Do you mean the MSR Autobelayer, 92mm x 50 mm x 16 mm, red, five holes with a blue bolt out one end? There is a picture on my site at http://storrick.cnchost.com/VerticalDevicesPage/Glance/GlancePages/Glance2007_28.html, although I haven't added a detailed page yet. Is this it? What you describe is much larger....
> I once saw a European descend a rope by wrapping the rope a
> couple of times around one wrist, passing it over his back,
> then wrapping it around the other wrist. Don't remember if he
> used gloves
The good old arm rappel, used frequently on slopes, but only foolishly on free drops. I've used it many times caving.
----> Gary
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 14, 2007 - 10:14pm PT
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The red gadget with five holes looks like the gadget I remember. More or less matches my description, only about 2/3 the size.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Nov 14, 2007 - 10:56pm PT
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If want to really learn stuff about rapping and ascending, ask a caver [they really have nothing better to do with their time e.g. "27 miles"]
Hey Gary,
Great to have you aboard. I've referenced and hotlinked your excellent website for years. So long time no cave - I'm usually in Roppel these days when I'm underground.
You wrote,
"Most people do not know how to use a rack properly"
How so?
Cheers,
Pete
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 14, 2007 - 11:33pm PT
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A baby angle makes a usable brake bar. haven't seen that mentioned.
I've also seen (early 70's)a stamped brake bar that looked like a sawed off angle with a notch in the end opposite the eye.
So the brake bar probably evolved from using a piton?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Nov 14, 2007 - 11:50pm PT
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TGT said: A baby angle makes a usable brake bar. haven't seen that mentioned. I've also seen (early 70's)a stamped brake bar that looked like a sawed off angle with a notch in the end opposite the eye. So the brake bar probably evolved from using a piton?
Ha! Forgot all about that one, but I used ocasionally way back when. In fact, it I alwasy felt it was faster and safer than a biner brake. Of course, since no one carries pins anymore, it's just an historical curiosity.
D
edit: yeah, I know, wall rats carry pins, but I was talking about normal humans.
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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Nov 15, 2007 - 12:23am PT
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"Since 1966, there has been no real progress in rappelling."
Well, I wouldn't really call it 'progress' but K. Macgregor and others did come up with the "squeeze plate". I would agree with your accessment of rack usage and the lack of knowledge. Spacers are becoming the norm! caveman
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gdstorrick
Trad climber
PA
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Nov 15, 2007 - 04:30pm PT
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> This is thread drift, but I dont think I have really ever seen
> an answer.
> Are all the belaydevices we commonly use also safe for a
> rappel?
> I see people doing it all the time, but somehow it seems wrong
> to me.
> I do sometimes use a munter hitch when other things fail me,
> as described above.
Absolutely not, nothing can make rappelling safe. There are times when I'm willing to take the risk (e.g., when the name of the day ends in the letter "y," or days when the earth revolves), but some danger is always there. Never safe.
One problem with small belay devices is that they get much hotter than larger devices, all other things (e.g., same rope, same drop, same speed, same rappeller, same weather) being equal. SOme aren't as smooth, some don't give enough friction, blah blah blah, but what really matters is the skill and care of the rappeller using the device, whatever the device is.
There are times where a small belay device is deffinitely unsafe: long drops (see my earlier definition), or very sandy ropes. On a pleasant day, coming down after climbing short routes (no haul bag), I use them myself - although I have a preference for ones with more friction (e.g., Trango Jaws), since at 6'4", 195, I'm no lightweight.
----> Gary
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