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Mick K
climber
Northern Sierra
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 19, 2004 - 01:49pm PT
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Try reading the bible and praying to take care of those aches and pains! Apparently it works for PMS.
Mountian Man, et al-Can't wait to hear your defense of this BS.
President Bush has announced his plan to select Dr. W. David Hager to head up the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee. The committee has not met for more than two years, during which time its charter lapsed. As a result, the Bush Administration is tasked with filling all eleven positions with new members. This position
does not require Congressional approval. The Committee makes crucial decisions on matters relating to drugs used in the practice of obstetrics, gynecology and related specialties, including hormone therapy, contraception, treatment for infertility, and medical alternatives to surgical procedures for sterilization and pregnancy termination.
Dr. Hager, the author of "As Jesus Cared for Women: Restoring Women Then and Now." The book blends biblical accounts of Christ healing Women with case studies from Hager's practice. His views of reproductive health care are far outside the mainstream for reproductive technology. Dr. Hager is a practicing OB/GYN who describes himself as "pro-life" and refuses to prescribe contraceptives to unmarried women.
In the book Dr. Hager wrote with his wife, entitled "Stress and the Woman's Body," he suggests that women who suffer from premenstrual syndrome should seek help from reading the bible and praying. As an editor and contributing author of "The Reproduction Revolution: A Christian Appraisal of Sexuality
Reproductive Technologies and the Family," Dr. Hager appears to have endorsed the medically inaccurate assertion that the common birth control pill is an abortifacient. We are concerned that Dr. Hager's strong religious beliefs may color his assessment of technologies that are necessary to protect women's lives or to preserve and promote women's health.
Hager's track record of using religious beliefs to guide his medical decision-making makes him a dangerous and inappropriate candidate to serve as chair of this committee. Critical drug public policy and research must not be held hostage by antiabortion politics. Members of this important panel should be appointed on the basis of science and medicine, rather than
politics and religion. American women deserve no less.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 19, 2004 - 02:14pm PT
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I consider myself to be a somewhat spiritual guy and I have prayed to be saved from PMS and I can tell you that it doesn't work!
Maybe it only works if you're praying to be saved from your own PMS.
;-)
Karl
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Melissa
Big Wall climber
oakland, ca
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Nov 19, 2004 - 02:25pm PT
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The problem with praying to cure your PMS is that usually when it's raging, you don't know you have it. The anger or depression just feels justified, not pathological. It's only after you get your period that you realize that you had a little personality problem the day before and the root of its cause.
There's nothing like taking a little personal responsibility for one's own behavior though to temper things (should one choose to do so...)
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yo
climber
NOT Fresno
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Nov 19, 2004 - 02:26pm PT
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Good one, KB.
My wife often reads the Bible and finds guidance from all the female role models like . . . um . . . who they got, like, Jezebel or somebody? And I think there's a Ruth.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 19, 2004 - 02:42pm PT
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Melissa's right about that nagging problem that, if I generalize it, that folks aren't self aware enough to recognize how our physical state exaggerates our emotional state, even creates it.
Personally, I'm more prone to snap if I'm very tired. I've had girlfriends who, if they start to lose it without sufficient justification, I ask them "When was the last time you ate?" or failing that, "You're breasts look very full and luscious, are you getting your period soon?" Then, they do lose it. But in a couple days when they get their period, I get to indulge in a knowing wink and nod. It's almost worth it.
But it's us guys that need to spray the world with bullets, so who are we to talk?
Peace
karl
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Mountain Man
Trad climber
Outer Space
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Nov 19, 2004 - 04:49pm PT
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Amen brothers and sisters,
And the Lord has called upon me to tell you this...
God answers all prayers.
Just don't tell him how to answer them.
Now that I got that out, ther's certain moods that my sweet wife has, that only come when she's getting her period. So I give that same knowing wink, and she smacks me one.
But then the make up sex is so great....
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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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Nov 19, 2004 - 05:42pm PT
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Dude, you're not supposed to be having sex unless you're trying to have a kid!
At least, not according to the guy mentioned in the first post.
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ct
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Nov 19, 2004 - 05:48pm PT
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Melissa, I loved your response! I have printed out a copy of it, and will be sticking it in my wallet. Next time I get smacked upside the head during those few days a month, I'll just pull it out and use it as my 'get out of jail free' card, thanks.
Edit: good point by Melissa below. I meant to imply that I will be handing the card to the lady in my life, trying, oh-so-subtly to imply that perhaps I didn't deserve that whack.
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Melissa
Big Wall climber
oakland, ca
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Nov 19, 2004 - 05:51pm PT
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Thanks, ct!
I got a laugh because between your response and your gender-neutral username, I couldn't tell if you got wacked in the head during that time of the month because the woman in your life wasn't praying hard enough or because the time of the month was your own. ;-)
Forest...That's the best time of the month to attend the call of Darwin or Joseph Smith if your beleifs insist that you must do things procreatively, but your wishes are for negative results. (I was raised Catholic, and that's what I was told by the pope.)
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the Fet
Trad climber
Loomis, CA
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Nov 19, 2004 - 08:00pm PT
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I can't help but think we wouldn't have PMS problems if there was a Mrs. God. If he had had some first hand experience with women perhaps he would've made PMS in humans lead to happiness instead of bitchiness.
If there was a Mrs. God she'd probably nag him about all the killing that goes on in his name and he'd stop it so we wouldn't have all these wars and terrorists.
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Mick K
climber
Northern Sierra
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2004 - 08:07pm PT
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Jay:
My post was more tongue in cheek that informative. I though it was interesting given the prior post regarding sore joints.
I did find your reference interesting and noted that the good Dr. denied most all the allegations levied against him except: He did admit to prescribing prayer for PMS. As far as I know there is no scientific proof that prayer has any effect on PMS.
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NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
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Nov 19, 2004 - 08:52pm PT
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I think PMS is a woman-made excuse to let off steam every once and awhile (kind of likre blue-balls, eh guys). My wife either never gets PMS, or does a hell of a job hiding it if she does.
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Mountain Man
Trad climber
Outer Space
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Nov 19, 2004 - 09:04pm PT
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Confession,
I have 5 daughters, one wife.
PMS exists
Periods synchonize
Climbing trips are my one salvation
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Jay
Trad climber
Fort Mill, SC
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Nov 19, 2004 - 09:14pm PT
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Cool Mick, I just figured it's only fair to have both sides of such a whacked out issue. I know people who actually signed that petition so I decided to look up whether the accusations were true and I found that site. It's funny what people will say and do when they are lead by politics. They become crazy.
BTW, you'll never find scientific proof that prayer does anything. That kind of evidence may only be found through personal spiritual experience. I’m curious though, what’s wrong with a doctor suggesting a patient to pray? Is a doctor not allowed to give any kind of advice besides medical?
About PMS, Melissa is right on (I guess she would know). I’ve learned that my pride flares things up just as much as my wife’s irritability though. If I realize that I'm holding a grudge and I also remember she’s just reacting to the PMS I forget about whatever argument we’re in (give in, forgive, whatever is called for) and know she’ll come to her senses the next day or so. After knowing my wife for over half my life now it is the best solution so far. And BTW, I am able to do this kind of thing better with prayer than without.
Oh one more thing, when she’s ovulating… ;)
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Nov 19, 2004 - 10:01pm PT
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You can tell a lot about someone's identity by looking at their name. God is very cool, and is in fact so bitchin' he can define himself by his own name.
Remember the scene in The Ten Commandments when ol' Chuck Heston was standing before the burning bush that wasn't consumed? The bush was like, God, eh? Anyway, when Moses [that's Chuck, not Yul - Yul was the villain] asked God what his name was, God said,
"I am who I am."
How cool is that? Now, you might have thought that Popeye the Sailor Man came up with that schtick first, but let me assure you that he wasn't exactly original. God was there first. In fact, Jesus really pissed off some of the religious leaders of the day when they asked him, "Dude! Are you, like, the Christ, the Messiah?" and he answered, "I am." Lemme tell you that raised a few eyebrows, but I think Jesus got the last laugh, coming back from the dead and all. Either the dude was an outright liar, a raving lunatic, or he actually WAS the Lord. You'll have to arrive at your own conclusion on that one.
Now the ancient Hebrew for God's name is YHWH - "I am who I am" or "the self existent one" - and it's this word with no vowels, that you sort of try to pronounce as Yahweh. Some bibles translate this as Jehovah, and others just say the LORD in capital letters.
One of the Hebrew names for God is "Jehovah Rapha" which translates literally as "The LORD who heals". See, his name is his identity, and in his name you can understand some of the stuff he does.
But don't take MY word for it - talk to HIM about it. I can like pray for your healing and stuff, but I'm not sure how much help I can give you. You'll probably do better if you ask in the name of Jesus, cuz Jesus said you could, and he knows stuff.
But I don't "get it"! There is no scientific basis for any of this! I'm a scientist and an engineer, as you know, but why should I buy into all this stuff, anyway? It could be an utter crock! In fact, I used to think it was. But there came a time in my life when I had exhausted all earthly possibilities for help, and I didn't really have any choice except to turn to God. Well, guess what?! Dude was THERE! Big time! We have this like personal relationship, eh? I pray, he listens. I need to pray more. I'm not much of a prayer warrior. I have this HUGE problem with pride [in case you haven't noticed! Sheesh] and a lot of times I figure I can do stuff on my own. But like, I can't, eh? Apart from God I can do nothing! I try all the time, but he has this way of reminding me I can't. This could be one of those times.
But you can't dismiss the empirical evidence, at least I can't in my life. My heart was broken in a big time way. I was toast. I figured I didn't have much to live for. I'd probably be dead if it weren't for God. He keeps saving my sorry ass again and again. Think "Wyoming Sheep Ranch" and there's one of his more recent examples. I figure he's got some great and wonderful plan for my life, but I'm still waiting to figure out what the heck it is. I don't get it, but I'm trusting him that he does. Maybe I'm crazy, but he hasn't let me down yet. {shrug}
In my time of need I called upon the name of the LORD - Yahweh Rapha - and I asked buddy to heal me, and damned if he didn't! I mean, he *really* healed my hurts. If you think I'm a bit of prick right now, you're right - but believe me, if you had known me before God did some work in my life, you would REALLY have hated me. So God has done lots of healing in my heart.
But it should come as no surprise he has plenty of work left to do in me! Let's just say I'm a "work in progress." I'm his "project". I figure he's gonna do a New Thang in me, and I'm thankful that in him I'm a new creation - out with the old, in with the new. [Thank God! Sheesh. And therein lies my hope, eh?]
So what I'm suggesting is this - if you have hurts, be they physical, spiritual, emotional, whatever - then call upon the name of the LORD. Remind him that HE IS THE DUDE, and point out to him that his NAME is actually The Lord Who Heals. Tell him that you need some healing big time, and ask him to help you out. Admit to him that you actually can't do it on your own, even though you've tried. Try using the name of Jesus sometime, too. They say at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, and I never figured that one out cuz you bow from your back, not your knees! But all I'm sayin' is this - trust in the NAME of the Lord, and you just might find that your hurts - like mine - will be healed.
It doesn't make sense, but I can't ignore the empirical observations! Maybe it's just wishful thinking and good karma and positive vibrations and all that warm and fuzzy stuff, but I kinda think not. It just doesn't add up any other way. I have to conclude by process of elimination that it has to be God, cuz nothin' else makes logical sense.
If you have any further questions, let me tell you that my portaledge is always open. Stop by for a coffee, or a beer, depending on whether it is before or after Changeover Time, and like, we'll talk, eh?
I am "Praise the LORD and Pass the Pitons" Pete
P.S. Mountain Man might be Catholic. {PTL and PTPP launches into a resounding verse of Monty Python's, "Every Sperm Is Sacred" and exits stage right on rappel}
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Mick K
climber
Northern Sierra
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 20, 2004 - 02:54pm PT
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Jay:
Many people look up to a doctors and actually believe they have specialized knowledge (which they do) that will help them overcome their medical problem. That is why they go to a doctor for medical advice, advice that should be based in science. It is wrong for a doctor to use his position to influence his/her patients as to the doctors personal religious beliefs. Praying has no physical effect on the patients body.
In my opinion it is just plain wrong for a doctor to abuse his position and disrespect his profession in such a way. People don't go to doctors for spiritual advice the go seeking medical advice. If they are having problems dealing with the curveballs (PMS, stress, whatever) life sends their way, then they are free to choose to go to their “spiritual advisor” who just ma advise prayer/meditation which then may prove effective, even for dealing with PMS.
A persons relationship with their god is purely a personal one. No one should get in the middle of it including a Church or doctors. If I want to pray to my god-I pray. I don't need to go to church, put money in the basket or seek the counsel of a sinner who says he is a preacher/priest (read: molester of alter boys...).
If you want to believe in god then good for you. If it helps you cope or if you believe it will lead to your salvation then even better. I wish you all the best.
But, KEEP YOU F*UCKING BELIEFS TO YOURSELF. STAY THE F*UCK OUT OF MY BELIEFS. I don’t want to hear it and I don’t want to hear you trying to persuade some other person that “you have got the better way” (take a lesson from PTPP, no one wants to hear about the better way) . [sorry to get a little heated]
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Jay
Trad climber
Fort Mill, SC
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Nov 20, 2004 - 07:06pm PT
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"People don't go to doctors for spiritual advice the go seeking medical advice"
Speak for yourself.
"If they are having problems dealing with the curveballs (PMS, stress, whatever) life sends their way, then they are free to choose to go to their “spiritual advisor” who just ma advise prayer/meditation which then may prove effective, even for dealing with PMS."
What if this doctor is a qualified spiritual advisor? I know many devout Jews and Christians who aren’t clergy that know their way around the Bible, and spiritual things. They can teach a few Rabbis and Pastors a thing or two. That’s how religious people work, many, if not most, don’t wear the cloth.
“KEEP YOU F*UCKING BELIEFS TO YOURSELF. STAY THE F*UCK OUT OF MY BELIEFS.”
Not sure if that was directed towards me, Pete, the doc or some priest. But it’s a free country; people can legally express what they believe. If you don’t like what they say, don’t listen. I understand though. There have been many people turned off to the Christian thing because of Bible thumpers, including me. You should ignore that stuff if it doesn’t appeal. Getting worked up just creates enmity though. What are you so mad about?
“In my opinion it is just plain wrong for a doctor to abuse his position and disrespect his profession in such a way.”
Like the people who wrote that piece you posted, you're making assumptions. You're assuming that this doc we're talking about tries to unsolicitedly preach to his patients who suffer from PMS. I found nothing so far to prove that. And even if it were true, we don’t know if he’s respectful of people who don’t prescribe to his beliefs now do we? Also, you're not acknowledging that there are evangelists in all walks of life, not just of the Christian sort. Look at Matt for example, he preaches all day long (no offense Matt just making a comparison). And some don’t use words. So what I see you doing here is picking out a certain person regardless of his personality and practice and calling him a “preacher” who’s rubbed you the wrong way. You're accusing him of doing something you don't even know he does. He's a Christian Doctor going places. Why the personal problem? Do you know something I don't? Have you been visiting this doctor for PMS?
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Clayman
Trad climber
CA
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Nov 20, 2004 - 09:02pm PT
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I agree completly with Pete that God will change and heal you. I was raised in a Christian household but never really took God seriously, and didnt see Him in my life. Later on in life, a number of things got me thinking and questioning things. I started praying and reading the Bible and hanging with a group of people that had a personal relatinship with God. And man, once you asked God into your life and geuninly accpet Him, I noticed a HUGE change. My life turned completly around. I was happier, more stoaked then ever to climb and explore His creation. My friends and family notcied a distinct postive change in me.It truley amazed me and made me realize the God is real and loves, no matter how messed up the world is, He has a plan that will make sense in the end, even though the world is a mess currently. Cultivating a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and having His guidance is truley amazing and life altering and i havent found anything else in this world that can compare to having a walk with God and the diffrence He has made in my life, nothing else in this world comapares, so i am convinced that it has to be God.
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yo
climber
NOT Fresno
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Nov 20, 2004 - 10:17pm PT
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Flody, Flody...round and round we go.
Evolution, despite what your panicky thumper newsletters say, should only be taught as a theory in school, the best known scientific theory to explain life. And the vast majority of teachers will respect your child's right to believe otherwise.
The only way gay marriage infringes your rights is if you're in the closet. Little American Beauty thing there.
Everyone in this society has the right to their life, gay, Christian, whatever, as long as they do not inhibit the rights of others. Don't know if you can tell the diff, but I don't have problems with your faith--I have problems with your political zealotry and that of your elected officials.
As my grandma would've said, Mind your f*#king beeswax! (Without the f*#king.)
And as long as we're cracking semi-humorous homopuns, get your junk out of my country's mouth, it's choking on your jesus jizz.
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