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Juggler
Trad climber
Earth
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 2, 2004 - 10:02pm PT
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A note was just posted on the Camp 4 board regarding restoring Zodiac back to its original state. It specifically states that he/she will be removing all fixed gear and chopping any bolts that weren't installed on the FA and that the current Supertopo will no longer be valid. It was signed "American Chopper (Vroom, vroom)". Anybody in the know on this?
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bigwalling
climber
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Bryan Law is the American Chopper but Ivo is in on the thing too. I think it's a proud mission. But I;m sure the fixed gear will be back fast. Hopefully bolts will stay away.
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Somebody smack BL upside the head and get him to post up about what they did. Dude has a noble goal, but I'm wondering about the specifics. Ammon has posted some info in another thread, but it would be great to hear it straight from the horse's mouth.
BRYAN! Talk to me.
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Holdplease2
Trad climber
All over
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Ed, they are still climbing/cleaning, give them some time.
-Kate.
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
The Ditch
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Kate has it right. I'm sure Bryan will be posting as soon as he gets down.
They are on a mission to preserve BOTH the free climb and the aid line.
Yep, Jake. Hopefully people THINK before they drill.
Have fun, climb hard!!!
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Ah! Cool! No worries. Looking forward to the report. In my pitiful world, people spend much more time on line talking sh!t than they actually do climbing. Looks like they have a better sense of priorities and get their climbing in first.
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yo
climber
NOT Fresno
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Did the route a couple weeks back, the last guy to see the old Zodiac! OK, who cares.
Fair bit of tat here and there. Wouldn't mind putting my own stuff in the Black Tower instead of clipping sh#t. But here's where I think the cleanup will hurt: the Nipple had fixed gear at convenient intervals. Every time you hit a fixed piece you can cam hook a ways. Eliminating those fixed pieces will eliminate cam hooking and double the rack needed for the pitch.
I guess it's not supposed to be convenient.
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coiler
Trad climber
yosemite
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My boys, I'm so proud of them I personally carried the chopping kit to the base, I had to be a vital member of the team on such a celebrated and historic ascent of the classic. I also watched as Minerals chopped a bolt within 1 foot of an A1 red/yellow alien, on the first pitch. That is a symptom of modern ethics, a bolt 1 foot from an A1 placement 20' off the ground. I guess EVERYBODY has to be able to do it?Three cheers to the R.B.C.A! horay , horay, horay!!! Long live scary climbing!!!
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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I climbed the route last summer right after Ammon and his posse, pluss the Hubers did a bunch of cleaning. It was awesome, only a couple fixed pieces on the Black Tower and a couple on the Nipple.
This is how the route SHOULD be.
However, even after CHead and friend finish their work on the route, I doubt it will remain "clean" of fixed gear long. I give it two seasons before it is right back where it was minus the bolts they remove.
Fact is it's a newbie route and lots of newbies arn't capable of either placing gear with out getting it stuck, or leaving gear behind because they can't clean it.
Meanwhile alot more pins will be pounded on the route in the upcoming acsents. Sure perhaps more similar to the original route...sort of...but is it beneficial for the route in the long run? Tough question...
and u2top...what exactly do you want bryan to tell you? sounds like he makes it pretty clear...most all fixed gear and any bolt not placed on the FA.
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Irisharehere
Trad climber
Gunks
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lol, maybe I'll have to come out there in two years, and remove all the "new" fixed gear - make a nice addition to my Gunks rack!
Seriously - climbers so raw that they can't figure out how to clean their gear? I was holding off going out to Yosemite figuring I wasn't ready yet, but looks like thats not the case!
Irish
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ricardo
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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i bootied quite a bit of fixed gear (about $150 worth) when i went up zodiac .. you'd be surprised what people can't clean.
My ascent was a bit different than lambone's (also last year) .. when i got to the nipple the pitch was fixed all the way to the nipple .. (i didn't have to place 1 piece, or hook once to get to the nipple) .. my guess is that the hubers had unloaded 2 sets of nuts and some pins onto that part of the pitch while workingout the moves.. (it was easy to tell which pins were theirs since they were painted green) ..
alot of fixed gear on the upper half of the route.
ed: .. so does all your enthusiasm mean that you're going to give this bad-puppy another try next year? ..
 ricardo
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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"climbers so raw that they can't figure out how to clean their gear? I was holding off going out to Yosemite figuring I wasn't ready yet, but looks like thats not the case!"
In their credit...some of the pitches are pretty traversing and the cleaning isn't allways trivial, especialy for someone without much traversing experience.
Ricardo,
that's funny! I clipped 1 fixed piece going out to the Nipple. I HAD to use cause I ran out of cams, not being able to back clean...
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Gene
Social climber
Two hours away
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Why are the Zodicleaners doing this?
""i bootied quite a bit of fixed gear (about $150 worth) when i went up zodiac .. you'd be surprised what people can't clean.
My ascent was a bit different than lambone's (also last year) .. when i got to the nipple the pitch was fixed all the way to the nipple .. (i didn't have to place 1 piece, or hook once to get to the nipple)""
No diss intended, Ricardo... You played the cards you were dealt.
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ricardo
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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I think cleaning is easier when you're soloing, since you can think ahead when you place gear for the cleaner (you) ..
.. i regretfully did have to leave 2 fixed pieces when i did it though -- because i was lame and forgot my hammer when i cleaned p6 .. couldn't get a tri-cam and a ball-nut out!! .. arg..
ricardo
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Boney -- I have no idea what was and wasn't an original bolt. Not that I have any clue what's beyond P4, but after two attempts, I kinda had those dialed. ;-) If the topo has changed significantly, as has been indicated (like the first pitch), then that's what I want to know. The old topo has some sections as C3F, and if that "F" isn't there anymore, then I'd like to know what kind of pins I'd need to get through.
Coiler!!! I figured you'd have been a part of the clean up team. All you could manage was lugging up a damn bolt kit? I thought you'd be good for stocking their beer supply, at least. Hope the summer has been uneventful.
Ricardo -- yep. I'll be back. I'm gonna solo that fokker one way or another. I might even get it done this decade.
Ed
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Geeez, Ed - you should have knocked the bastard off before they took out all the fixed gear!
I love the comment about n00bs being unable to clean fixed gear, as it is usually true. I cleaned a pisspot full of booty off the WFLT!
However some n00bs "get it", and some don't. And Ricardo is one of the former. Not only can he solo El Cap as his first big wall ever, but he can get stuff out that other climbers ahead of him had to leave in.
Good on ya, mate! What's up for this fall?
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Link
climber
Yosemite, CA
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I've been hearing a good bit of smack talk about the Zodiac "cleaning" recently (there's always something to talk about around here). Some people love it, some people hate it, some people just like to talk smack, etc.
I like the principle of it: "cleaning" a route, removing fixed tat, pulling fixed gear, etc. Unfortunately, I'm not so jazzed about the attitude. I asked one of the “cleaners” last week what kind of reaction he was hearing from other climbers, and replied that he didn’t give a &#$% what other climbers thought. First off, that’s really too bad. Second, that’s probably a lie. You don’t go up on one of El Cap’s trade routes and chop bolts without wanting a “reaction.”
Climb hard, climb clean, etc, but let’s make sure we’re honest about what we’re doing and why we’re doing it. I'm not trying to rip on these guys, don't get me wrong; I'm all for cleaning routes, and I know they've spent more time on the big stone than most. But... do we really care about protecting El Cap, its rock, its integrity, its tradition? Are we motivated by ego? Most of us are somewhere in the middle, so it’s worth asking every once in a while, especially when you’re using a hammer and chisel.
Keep it clean, whatever that means :)
-Link (posting as a climber, not as an official ranger dude)
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BrentA
Gym climber
estes park
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Nice post Link.
Who made Mr. Law the trade route police? His ego, bored swilling, has to be something?
To me this sounds pretty lame. NO route withstands the test of time without bolt additions. Is he chopping all the anchors? Pretty sure Mr. Porter didnt have all those on the FA?
Its totally some sort of statement to be so boisterous about this endeavor on one of the Caps most popular routes.
Whats the diff between this and Beyers cleanup efforts??????
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More Air
Big Wall climber
S.L.C.
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So will the bolt at the wide spot (the tit) on the nipple pitch get removed?? That could make the route less crowded.
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