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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 11, 2007 - 07:24pm PT
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everytime i think it couldnt get worse, it does.
Al-Qaida targets Iraqi infrastructure
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070611/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq;_ylt=AozrZPROxxZ0qQp9PccjjmnMWM0F
most people that have a clue realize that to "win" even if it is possible, would take a huge increase in troops. try 10 times what we got.
the surge, is a bad joke on everyone and the white house and military leaders are failing us.
hell,all the politicians are failing us.
my concern is that if things get worse a "draft" may be the only way to increase the size of the military. i have a 16 year old and i sure as hell dont want him to be fighting in a war that was created on lies.
do you guys think a draft is even possible?
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 11, 2007 - 07:28pm PT
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Nope.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Jun 11, 2007 - 07:32pm PT
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at this rate anything is possible.
The thing with the draft is - if it happens it pretty much means the idiots that started this war on a bunch of lies will be at their last straw. The entire house of cards will come tumbling down on them. In a certain way I hope there is a draft (I don't really - but I think it would speak volumes about how bad things have gotten for shrub and his puppet masters). Nothing else seems to be waking up the Americans that believe we should be over in the ME trying to control thing - maybe threatening to take their sons and daughters away would do the trick (I doubt it - ignorance is a tough thing to combat, as is denial).
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jun 11, 2007 - 07:42pm PT
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There isn't going to be a draft so y'all can stop worrying about it.
You heard it here first.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jun 11, 2007 - 07:44pm PT
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i am in favor of cumpolsory service
let those who support the war opt in for military service, and let the others (and the gays, i guess, since they don't get to fight in the army) opt for domestic service or peace corps type service.
sure would be easy to see who in DC was unwilling to back their tough talk w/ the lives of their young virgin kiddies!
edit for chaz-
course not, cause that would mean we are losing or something...
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Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
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Jun 11, 2007 - 07:44pm PT
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I offerred a prediction among my circle of friends back when we invaded Iraq, many of whom were ardent supporters of the war and of course some were not. I said that this looked to me like a policy designed from the beginning to paint us in a box. There are two ways out. Use nukes, or institute a draft. Which will it be...?
Bush has said publicly that he intends to deal with Iran before the end of his term. Iran has said in response that they will start a war throughout the region if we bomb their nuclear sites.
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dr_feelgood
Trad climber
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Jun 11, 2007 - 07:57pm PT
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Three of my close friends are being 'back door' drafted. I missed it by 2 months to the day.
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Jun 11, 2007 - 08:03pm PT
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The draft is already happening. Here's the recipie:
1. Start a war
2. Send all our troops over there
3. Trash the economy
4. Send our jobs overseas
5. Oops! The only jobs left are in the military
WhoooHoooo! Now we have an all-voluntary army. Forget that it's the only thing left to do. Don't call in the "poverty draft" call it the best all-volunteer army in the world.
Perfect.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jun 11, 2007 - 08:09pm PT
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Perfect, except four of your five points exist only in your imagination.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 11, 2007 - 08:11pm PT
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Well maybe five for five
Dr. maybe you didn't read the contract when you signed it.
My kid did.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 11, 2007 - 08:16pm PT
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I'm personally in favor of the following:
The president gets to deploy two sets of 25k troops for six months to any two different conflicts at his discretion. The day they want one more body or one more day, they have to ask congress for a formal declaration of war. On the day that declaration of war is signed, the following occurs until and armistice is signed or the declaration is annulled or withdrawn:
1) All prices are frozen.
2) A 10% national war sales tax on all property, goods, and services goes into effect.
3) A no-exemption draft goes into effect.
These three measures alone would keep us from going to war lightly and would end them swiftly.
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John Moosie
climber
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Jun 11, 2007 - 08:17pm PT
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"Perfect, except four of your five points exist only in your imagination."
uh...would you care to expand on this? What do you mean?
1. We did start a war.
2. Maybe not all but a lot
3. The economy is boosted by low interest rates and fake tax rebates. ( think growing national debt )
4. jobs are going overseas. Do you doubt that?
5. what decent paying jobs can a person without much education get? most of our manufacturing has gone overseas because of globalization.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jun 11, 2007 - 08:32pm PT
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"1. Start a war"
Debatable. Hussein failing to live up to his end of the bargain he made to stop hostilities in '91 gave Bush a reason to kick his ass.
"2. Send all our troops over there"
We have about 500,000 active duty Military and about 700,000 Reserve and National Guard. About 130,000 Troops are in Iraq, not "all our troops" as stated.
"3. Trash the economy"
Economy's doing fine any way you care to measure it.
"4. Send our jobs overseas"
Far more jobs have been created here than have been *sent* "overseas".
"5. Oops! The only jobs left are in the military"
Combined number or Military jobs is 1.2 million (see above). Not even most jobs, but a very small fraction of jobs "are in the military".
On second thought, TGT's right when he says "Well maybe five for five".
And there isn't going to be a draft.
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John Moosie
climber
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Jun 11, 2007 - 08:53pm PT
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http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/04/12/troops_numbers/index.html
"April 12, 2005 | Three and a half years have passed since U.S. bombs started falling in Afghanistan, and ever since then, the U.S. military has been engaged in combat overseas. What most Americans are probably unaware of, however, is just how many American soldiers have been deployed. Well over 1 million U.S. troops have fought in the wars since Sept. 11, 2001, according to Pentagon data released to Salon. As of Jan. 31, 2005, the exact figure was 1,048,884, approximately one-third the number of troops ever stationed in or around Vietnam during 15 years of that conflict.
More surprising is the number of troops who have gone to war since 9/11, come back home, and then were redeployed to the battle zone. Of all the troops ever sent to Iraq or Afghanistan, one-third have gone more than once, according to the Pentagon. In the regular Army, 63 percent of the soldiers have been to war at least one time, and almost 40 percent of those soldiers have gone back. The highest rate of first-time deployments belongs to the Marine Corps Reserve: Almost 90 percent have fought."
........................................................................
I haven't verified this but it looks like you would be wrong Chaz.
You wrote,
"Debatable. Hussein failing to live up to his end of the bargain he made to stop hostilities in '91 gave Bush a reason to kick his ass"
Why does Saddam Hussien have to answer to George Bush? Our weapons inspectors found nothing. Didn't you read what they said or did you just buy what George said?
What kind of Jobs have been created here? Low paying service jobs?
What do you plan to do about the growing national debt?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2007 - 08:59pm PT
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more good news.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6743249.stm
the other way they keep troop leves down is with guns for hire and the Contractor. never before has the US used so many contractors in battle. some of it is the high tech stuff, but some of it is the ease of contracting it out....
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Jun 11, 2007 - 11:44pm PT
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Draft = war protests....Not gonna' happen.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 12, 2007 - 02:03am PT
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Will DaftRat be renamed DraftRat?
The administration may be just deluded enough to try to institute a draft. It seems likely that their sins would then come home to roost, even if it's only months before the elections.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 12, 2007 - 02:15am PT
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Chaz you are an idiot. Debatable? Come on man..if you want to argue that it "was the right thing to do" that's fine but don't cop an attitude like it wasn't a choice. If we invaded every country that wasn't living up to UN resolutions we'd NEED a draft. What disgusts me more is the people that most commonly use this argument are the same ones who scoff at the "irrelevancy" of the UN and have been working as hard as they can to nueter it for decades.
Draft isn't a political possibility unless we suffer another major terrorist attack...something probably worse than 9/11. At the current rate that probably isn't that unlikely. It all depends on how and what and where. If things continue as they are a draft would incite a domestic revolt.
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imnotclever
climber
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Jun 12, 2007 - 10:54am PT
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There's not going to be a draft. Won't happen. But that's sad. Right now wars don't require sacrifice of the general public – no change in any aspect of their daily lives. In WWII there was rationing, women had to wear panties that had cinch strings on them so the elastic could go to the war effort.
A draft would change this somewhat, the general public would have some investment in the war and the war wouldn’t be taken so lightly. And it is taken lightly – Paris and Anna Nicole top the news for as long as they did. What’s going on in Afghanistan?
Right now, after the decision to go to war was made, I don't have much reason to be vested in this war. The people who signed up to fight wars are fighting it. The taxes that my kids will be burdened with are a problem, but a lot of that money is spent now.
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Indianclimber
climber
Las Vegas
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Jun 12, 2007 - 11:08am PT
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To start a draft they would first have to decide if they are going to draft women that argument alone would take years.
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