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Ouch!
climber
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May 25, 2007 - 09:03pm PT
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"How would someone with more strength than I generate yet more force? Is it a matter of pushing down harder on the handle harder or is it just a matter of how far (distance) the handle moves?"
People who sell shovel handles will love you.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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May 25, 2007 - 09:06pm PT
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This might be the most specific troll ever.
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Off the Couch
Trad climber
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May 25, 2007 - 09:38pm PT
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LEB, should I bother reading this thread, if I'm not interested in physics tonight?
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Mimi
climber
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May 25, 2007 - 09:41pm PT
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Don't know if I'd classify this thread as a troll. I thought trolls were obnoxious, antagonistic, and/or nasty by definition.
Hey LEB, iron prybars are available at the local hardware. If you're gonna keep this up, buy one, they're cheap. I'm surprised you didn't crack the shovel handle if those rocks were as giant as you describe. And how they came up so easily is also interesting. The glacial till here in the PNW can be pretty tough when excavating cobble by hand.
Keep up that kind of hard labor and you'll be ready to go cragging by the end of the summer. Of course, you could go sooner, but...oh never mind.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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May 25, 2007 - 09:43pm PT
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I've broken handles (in no doubt, drier, soil) doing that.
I didn't mean you meant it as a troll. Sometimes the subconcious just takes over.
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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May 25, 2007 - 09:50pm PT
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LEB,
Right you are. The dirt behind the shovel serves as the fulcrum.
I agree, levers are amazing.
Once while offroading in Baja, I came across a Mexican rancher's full-size pickup. There were two guys sitting on a long pinyon pine log. Looked like a teeter-totter except they occupied the same end. The third guy was changing the tire. The entire right side of the truck was two feet in the air! A pile of rocks served as the fulcrum. That was really bizarre, because more often, they just dig the dirt out from under the tire (after supoorting the axle on a rock).
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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May 25, 2007 - 10:23pm PT
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I'm gonna take a stab at this one and say #3 is increase the lever length?? Kinda like a "cheater bar" or in terms we may understand the longer a "funkness device" the more leverage you have to pull out funcky placements. Jeeeezus LEB still out crankin' on this shitz, yer gonna hurt yerself. The tractor could generate some "force" in getting the rocks out. Ever think about that? Just a thought! Have a good holiday weekend, don't be posting about some injury incurred by pulling some funky boulders outa the dang ground.
Peace
dynamite works good on rock
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Mimi
climber
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May 25, 2007 - 10:24pm PT
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"As for the rocks, I loved pitting myself against these rocks and winning! These suckers were in my way and I got them out. This must be like you all feel when you "conquer" some of these rocks you climb." LEB
Valid analogy from a physical sense. Imagine said stones flying by you. That usually dispels any feeling of couquering. Most climbers, I believe, don't generally feel they're conquering anything. Enjoying the climb and living to climb another day is usually plenty enough.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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May 25, 2007 - 10:35pm PT
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Crowley you on crack?
Peace
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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May 25, 2007 - 10:42pm PT
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Nice one, I like crack on the rocks!
Peace
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Mimi
climber
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May 25, 2007 - 11:04pm PT
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AC, you putrid scumbag (with a lever sticking out of your ass, so we remain on topic). Just can't help yourself, can you? Go crap elsewhere.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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May 25, 2007 - 11:06pm PT
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political leverage
Peace
I can see the reason behind his post...... look at it from a different perspective.
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WBraun
climber
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May 25, 2007 - 11:08pm PT
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Political leverage ...... hahahahaha
Brilliant!
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Mimi
climber
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May 25, 2007 - 11:11pm PT
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It was OT, Ron. And uncool. Same old stalking crap from AC. Rally 'gainst the clown, boys.
LEB Edit: It's called autoclown, LEB. You nailed it.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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May 25, 2007 - 11:26pm PT
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Sorry???? Mimi. Sometimes it's fun to play mind games with the mindless. Werner may have got it! Brilliant. Mimi I will try not to play with the Crowley again, didn't know it would rile everyone up so much. Sweet dreams Lois, a lever is a simple tool isn't it? Get a Deere.
Peace
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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May 25, 2007 - 11:27pm PT
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LEB, I know you were/are sincere, never doubted it. Nonetheless, I stand by what I said. Was just digging deeper, as it were.
The fulcrum was, of course, the point behind the shovel head or handle or whatever, the point at which the downward and upward forces on the tool switch.
I'd guess it was another rock, some moister (thus firmer) soil or a bit of water absorbing sheet silicate, ie-clay.
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Mimi
climber
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May 25, 2007 - 11:39pm PT
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Ron, I was about to praise you for your wit too. It's just that damned clown, AC, that's all.
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headintheclouds
climber
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May 25, 2007 - 11:45pm PT
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Using a pry bar as an example; if the tip is 1 sq. inch and the handle is 50 inches long, multiply the amount of force applied times the legnth of the bar in inches. If you apply 100 lbs. times 50 inches, means you can lift an object weighing 5000 lbs., provided the bar/handle is strong enough.
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Mimi
climber
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May 25, 2007 - 11:45pm PT
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Love this AC. Obviously the separation has been too much for you. Gaze deeply into that familiar face. Clown got pajamas. You got little footies too?
LEB Edit: To remain on topic again. I find a few methodical heaves with a prybar takes care of most of my problems in the garden. You would like the prybar, LEB, it gives you awesome leverage. Say this with an Ahnold accent.
Still stalking, AC?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 26, 2007 - 12:14am PT
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Troll or no:
1. What was serving as the fulcrum for the lever in this scenario.
I believe the back of the shovel blade compresses the dirt as you rotate the handle.
2. Given that the steel shovel with handle was approximately 66 inches, how much force (approximately) was I generating by leaning on it?
Really the mechanical advantage is approximately the ratio of the length of the handle-to-fulcrum to the fulcrum-to-blade, so for your case this is going to be something like 5:1. Assuming you weigh something like 100 lbs, you would generate 500 lbs of force neglecting the elasticity of the handle and the friction of the back of the blade on the dirt... of course you push down 20 inches and only raise the rock 4 inches...
3. How would someone with more strength than I generate yet more force? Is it a matter of pushing down harder on the handle harder or is it just a matter of how far (distance) the handle moves?
"Give me a place to stand on, and I will move the Earth." Attributed to Archimedes.
There are 6 simple machines: inclined plane, wheel and axle, lever, pulley, wedge, and screw.
I doubt that any ape, other than a hominid, would be able to figure this out... you can ask Duke- about gorillas... and most hominids seem to have problems with these simple ideas.
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