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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 17, 2018 - 06:10pm PT
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One of The really sad aspects of the Holts/ Dartmouth misadventure is that the climbs were all labled as sport climbs and Sport climbing was labled as bad. Ironicly there were quite a few stellar traditional ground up mixed climbs that got the chop along with all the great sport climbs. I have a hard time pictureing any self respecting trad climber chopping for money a climb that was established ground up in good style.
Good Country For Old Men was a great 40m 5.7 later shortened to 30m by installing a bolted top anchor that allowed you to skip 10m of grassy mossy RX crap to the oak tree. I bolted this rope solo ground up a few days before my 50th birthday. None of us had ventured anywhere up on this section of the cliff so this was a grand adventure in the thick of black fly and tick season. It ended up with one bolt that I would not have placed had I top roped the climb before bolting. the bolt was however not offensive enough for me to seriously consider removeing it. Keep in mind that on FA's in the North East it is quite dirty, loose and much, much more scary than the climb is when you get to experience it after a nice wire brushing and some shiny new hardware to clip. Curtis Cote follows Good Country For old Men 5.7 Now Chopped.Mad Man 5.10c was an absolute 5 star classic. The upper 2 pitches nothing special but the 35m 1st pitch was amazeing. Ground up with zero inspection a good mix of trad and bolts with some very exiting moves. I took a pretty big and exciting screamer up there with the drill and FA kit hanging off my ass when a bird beak blew. My belayer declared that I was a Mad Man. Isa on the 2nd ascent of Mad Man 5.10c Now Chopped.
Climber on Mad Man. it goes up that right faceing corner/ flake to super thin sporty face climbing.
I wonder if the choppers climbed it before they chopped it? I wonder if they had a thought of what it must have felt like to lead that pitch with no fixed hardware to aim for? What it must have felt like when it was dirty as heck and nothing to clip. I was always pretty scared leading this thing but would tell myself, Dude, you already did that move when it was covered in lichen, there was no bolt to clip after the move and you had a 20 lb drill hanging off your ass.
Women are Smarter 5.7 was a great very obscure and hard to find moderate that I talked 76 year old Jed into holding my rope on the FA. Isa was a wee bit smarter than Jed and figured it was going to be a heinous adventure. It was about 90 degrees F with 90% humidity and prime black fly and tick season. First we led Good Country and then scrambled up the grass and moss X gully to the traverse tree ledge. A nasty move or two across the gully climbers left of Two Boys (now sports a fixed rope) and we found this mixed gem now chopped. I led it and drilled it ground up. Jed follows the FA of Women are Smarter 5.7
Way to go boys. Chop a 76 year old senior citizens ground up FA. Good Job.
We Got The Funk 5.10+ 85m is another 3 star classic. Now Chopped. No preview , ground up. I always felt the start was over bolted and had toyed with the idea of cleaning it up. It was so crumbly and dirty for the first 25ft on the FA that I resorted to the drill a bit faster than I would have liked. Did not feel like the little red BD TCU thingy would hold anything real in that sandy crumbly stuff at the start. Once it got cleaned up and we got it wired I toyed with the idea of removeing the 1st two bolts. Anyways the bolts higher on the climb were critical. Especially on P2 now chopped.. The FA of P2 of We Got The Funk. This was a bit sporty with all the FA crap hanging off my butt and the fridgid November temps. Jim was a trooper on the belay while I elvis legged away up there.
Jim did a great job freeing the pitch. Jim on the FFA
Krampus 5.10a. 35m super cool 4 star ground up mixed climb. Now Chopped. I am really interested if the Choppers climbed this before chopping it??? possibly a tiny bit over bolted at the start but I could have easily changed that. The bolts in the middle quite important though as was the top anchors.. This was one of my favorites. steep and a great variety of climbing. Thin slab, steep face, cool thought provokeing overlap and a nice steep finger crack at the top. That was very exciteing to equip ground up. The upper half of the pitch was all trad and super fun. It was super sketchy standing on the licheny sloping ledge way above my last piece with no hand holds trying to pull the drill up on a tag line to drill the top anchors. The FFA of Krampus 10a. now Chopped.
these are just a few of the climbs that were destroyed.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 17, 2018 - 06:15pm PT
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Who did this?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2018 - 06:24pm PT
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If you are wondering how ground up FA's end up with epoxy bolts on them it happens 2 ways. #1 I decide that rock is too soft for a wedge bolt so after the FA is complete I climb it again. Funk out the offending bolt and replace with a glue in. this only happened a few times. the rock had some really sandy sections that were often quite isolated.
#2 I decided right from the start that it was going to be an epoxy bolt. I placed the epoxy bolt on lead, down climbed to last bolt and bailed for the day.
Placeing epoxy bolt on lead for a sport climb
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2018 - 06:26pm PT
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John. town of Lyme found out that they did not own the cliff. there was a ton of misinformation before that vote not the least of which that the cliff was Dartmouth property, Not Town Of Lyme property.
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Aeriq
Social climber
Location: It's a MisterE
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Sep 17, 2018 - 06:32pm PT
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Tradman - why did you not post a link that explains the reason?
That was a little irritating - making it about you.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
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One of the stellar sport climbs that was chopped. This was one of the best 10s in the North east.
Mad Woman 5.10c 35m Chopped.
The Pumpy start thought provokeing super thin face in the middle Gunning for the chains
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 17, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
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Have met 5 climbers who attended Dartmouth. Liars and cheats to the man.
Is it in their culture?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Sep 17, 2018 - 06:38pm PT
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wow! That's way jacked up. Vandalism.
So the article indicates the board from the town of Lyme, NH performed the damage to the rock.
The towns board members are identified in their annual report, along with their official contact numbers. It seems a gentle letter suggesting that town revenue could have been enhanced and that any residential issues could have been handled with signage/permits or working with the climbing community, might be in order.
SelectBoard Charles J. Smith, Chair Susan J. MacKenzie Bradford E. Keith
Select BoardMeetings: Thursday 8:00am-Town Office Conference Room Select Board Office Hours:Monday throughFriday 8:00 am -4:00 pm
Administrative Assistant Dina Cutting
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...
.795-4639 (Fax) 795-4637
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2018 - 06:50pm PT
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I did not post links to the many news articles because every single one that I read was full of lies propogated by one of the landowners that is 600ft from the cliff. Most of the climbs were too hard for him and some unfortunate things happened to sour him to the group that was climbing there. Regardless the vote was non binding as the town does not own the property. Fence was never cut, fires if they were made was never climbers and more likely residents of canan ledge lane. the tree cutting incident was very unfourtunate and condemned by all the climbers except for the 3 perps. Not ME. Climate being what it is in the north east the tree cutting has completely grown in and not noticeable now unless you are really looking for it. and in all reality miniscule compared to what was embraced as progress and heroic work over in kinsman knotch. The bottom line was that after a 2 year closure to let things cool down Dartmouth had the opertunity to work with CLIME and the Access fund and come up with a management plan that could have addressed the needs of the town and preserved the climbing. . instead they had a couple hacks chop the whole deal. Sad.
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Aeriq
Social climber
Location: It's a MisterE
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Sep 17, 2018 - 07:06pm PT
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Thanks - we don't live there & are not clairvoyant.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2018 - 07:14pm PT
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Additionaly we went there yesterday to see what had actually been done and it was very emotional. An incredible amount of blood, sweat, tears and love went into creating these climbs over a period of 5 years. Its a really crappy top rope area BTW with very cryptic approaches and multiple raps through loose dangerous terrain to get to the climbing. once there you need a 70 to 80m rope to TR. One of the reasons I did at least one ground up ascent at each area was because it is so dangerous coming in from the top. . Several areas were completely ground up simply because it was more fun and much less scary than getting there top down....
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 17, 2018 - 07:18pm PT
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Who's the dipsh!t that did this?????
That's NOT chopping ..... but criminal vandalism.
The Dartmouth people that did this are morons ......
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2018 - 07:27pm PT
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I had offered to remove the bolts for Lyme police and had scheduled meetings with the police chief to walk the cliffs and go over a plan for the removal. I would have done a professional job. The police never got back to me when they found out that they did not own the cliffs. I don't know who the climbers were that did the chopping but heard that they were paid by Dartmouth?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Sep 17, 2018 - 07:31pm PT
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Seems like you are saying Dartmouth did the deed?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2018 - 07:34pm PT
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Jim,the land owners house is 600ft from the nearest cliff. he does not own the cliff. nothing was done on his property. he was super stoked about the climbs in the beginning and was part of the gang for a bit but could not play with all the children and could only lead one of the climbs. He eventually soured on the whole thing for various reasons. some legit,some not. A powerfull political force he turned out to be. A sad drama worthy of a bad soap opera.... or not.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Sep 17, 2018 - 07:42pm PT
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I get the town politics but I do not see Dartmouths motivation to chop. Is there a back story to tell
Edit: I just remember that we stayed at Lyme Inn last winter. Visiting friends in South Straford
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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Sep 17, 2018 - 07:55pm PT
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My favorite trespasser excuse, "I didn't think anybody owned this".
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Matt's
climber
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Sep 17, 2018 - 08:13pm PT
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(I went to dartmouth bitd).
sorry if i'm confused-- the cliff is owned by dartmouth? And dartmouth decided to chop (poorly) all the bolts you put up on their property? Or is the cliff owned by the city of Lyme? Or a private landowner?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Sep 17, 2018 - 08:16pm PT
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the land owner read donini's comfort bolt thread and ran with it...
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