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KRS-Grun
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 12, 2018 - 10:17pm PT
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Mammoth Mountain is currently installing a via ferrata with approval from the Forest Service. They claim it is private property despite being installed on public land. https://www.mammothmountain.com/summer/things-to-do/adventure-center/new-for-2018
This seems strange to me as I can’t bolt a route and then declare my bolts are my property and keep people off my routes.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Jun 12, 2018 - 10:57pm PT
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maybe if you entered into a lease with the forest service in which you pay them for the exclusive right to offer the use of your bolts then you could.
I think it's easier in this situation to just pretend the bolts and cables are lifts. same thing really
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Jun 13, 2018 - 01:06am PT
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Alterra Mountain Company -- Gag me with a spoon.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jun 13, 2018 - 06:45am PT
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There is a zipline coming soon. Gondola up, zipline down. Where is the via ferrata going to be.
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KRS-Grun
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2018 - 07:14am PT
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Just seems like a weird grey area they will own the route. In Europe they have lots of via ferrata’s but from my understanding they are public. This case isn’t as bad a the one installed in Monterrey, Mexico where they bolted over a 1,000 foot classic 5.9 arete. Down there the company that received the government money to install it tries to lay claim to it but the public still uses it.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Jun 13, 2018 - 07:23am PT
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The USFS can permit public use on federal land if they want to. It's not really comparable to an individual bolting a route on their own.
Any idea where the via ferratta is being installed? I dunno- it looks like fun to me. I'd give it a run.
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Mtbphoto
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, Ca
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Jun 13, 2018 - 07:30am PT
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I heard about the Via Ferrata via a billboard in Bishop the other day. I would imagine it would have to be at "Top of the World" right up by the gondola. I always assumed that area has a ton of loose rock.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Jun 13, 2018 - 07:30am PT
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Pay for the insurance policy that is required under the FS lease and you’ll be set for privatizing your two bolt slab! ;)
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KRS-Grun
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2018 - 07:33am PT
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I’m not saying it’s the same as a person putting in bolts personally but there is clearly a similarity as they are putting bolts in rock as well as all the other hardware. My opinion is only that because it is on USFS land one should be allowed to hike up to it and climb it on their own. This is the first time USFS ha granted permission for this so it’s a pretty unique scenario.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Jun 13, 2018 - 07:40am PT
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You pay for the right to ride the chairlift and ski, how is this different?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 13, 2018 - 07:40am PT
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The Forest Circus sells our trees to be turned into bum wipe so how is this different?
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jun 13, 2018 - 07:46am PT
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Ski resorts have long been able to lease land from the FS and charge for activities on that land. And set their own rules(see Alta and no snowboards).
Not sure how this is any different.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Jun 13, 2018 - 08:01am PT
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Yeah-^^^ its really no different. The USFS is not a conservation organization. They advocate public use of federal lands and can discriminate at will. There was another thread about allowing private helicopter companies exclusive rights to charge for heli-skiing-. They also lease land for grazing, mining and logging. It's all in the same basket.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Jun 13, 2018 - 08:32am PT
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I’ve climbed at a private crag where you have to pay to play. Crawdad Canyon. Really not that great, but for ten bucks on the way out of town it was an interesting diversion.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Jun 13, 2018 - 08:35am PT
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The FS can't stop you from gaining access and climbing YOUR rock. But they can stop you from using THEIR bolts and cables. Just like you can access the ski resort, but you can't ride the lifts (some areas even prevent you from accessing FS land under lease and this is a legal gray area).
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jun 13, 2018 - 09:36am PT
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So is access to the FS owned ski area restricted to pass holders. Can you skin up and ski down?
You need a pass for the xc track, I assume the same rule applies at the mountain
So the same would apply to the rock
The extra income from the summer might help moderate lift ticket prices. Wishful thinking
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Ryan Tetz
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 13, 2018 - 11:51am PT
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Wish you could ski uphill some at Mammoth Mountain officially!
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bearbnz
Trad climber
East Side, California
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Jun 13, 2018 - 12:17pm PT
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Gumby is correct, the primary difference is the special use permit that MMSA has from the USFS that provides for their exclusive use of public lands. MMSA pays property taxes based on this exclusive use (known as a possessory interest). The land swap is nearing the final stages, and the Main Lodge area will soon be owned in fee by MMSA (Alterra). MMSA has had a habit of 'acquiring' other public assets that are not within their special use permit area, such as sections of the Uptown and Downturn trail.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jun 13, 2018 - 12:23pm PT
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Thanks bear. Gumby implied that access was open, you seem to being saying otherwise
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