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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 4, 2007 - 10:36am PT
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http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=17427
This is kind of an interesting story. The GCNP book stores sell a book that says that the Grand Canyon was created by the great flood that launched Noah into a household name. Is this any different than selling books with a Hopi or Navajo creation myth?
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andanother
climber
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The need for religion will cause people to believe some pretty silly things.
If people would just stop and think about it logically, they would clearly see that the Grand Canyon was carved by the giant snake that temporarily swallows planets during eclipses. The inhabitants of the moon sent him here to teach us how to split the atom (that’s from the real moon. You know, the one that is twice as far away as the sun. Not the fake moon Rahu, which is actually an invisible planet that orbits the earth.)
Or something like that.
Forgive me if I have mixed up some of the details. I’m not the great thinker that WBraun is.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Andanother, just how big is that snake?
Dingus, good post. I agree.
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dirtbag
climber
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If there is a "spiritual" section in the bookshop, then sure, why not?
However, according the article, the book was originally placed in the "natural sciences section." That's ridiculous. It's not science.
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andanother
climber
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Patrick,
I haven’t seen the snake, so I’m not exactly sure of its size. But if I had to take a guess, I would say it’s pretty f*#kin’ big.
And it seems like those irrational flat-worlders are taking over again. But the earth isn’t flat. It’s round. And it revolves around the sun. The moon, on the other hand, revolves around the earth despite the fact that it is twice as far away from us as the sun. I’m not really sure how that works. Perhaps WBraun will chime in and explain.
My religion is different than theirs because I’m right.
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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I have actually read the book and brought in on many Grand Canyon River trips, to share with those who have a creationist perspective (on guided trips). Generally, there's always at least one or two creationists on any given guided river trip.
Besides the fact that the book was printed with a super cheap binding that falls apart instantly, it is actually quite a nice book, with beautiful pictures from Charly Heavenrich and a perfectly consistent explanation of how the Canyon was formed (not that I believe a word of it--there's the required leap of faith that fossils were "planted" by the creator to test true believers).
The Hopis also have a flood mythology, it was the transition between the third and fourth world (which, interesting, is similar to the Hindu creation story). Similar to Noah's story, the Hopi creators realized that humanity was declining, decided to wipe out all but the holy, and brought on the flood (the previous Hopi worlds were detroyed by fire and earthquakes, according to one source).
This hoopla seems like great press for the author, I'm sure his sales will quadruple. By the way, the author is a well-respected river guide in the canyon.
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MZiebell
Social climber
Prescott, AZ
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I can second Whitey's story. Another example of NPS managers trying to please too many (powerful) constituents...
I have read "Grand Canyon: a different view". A graphically stunning work that is quite open in stating that it regards the Bible as "Inerrant". The explanations of what we see in the canyon strata vis-a-vis "the great flood" are entertaining but non-coherent. Perhaps a problem anyone would face trying to fit the Canyon into one book of the Bible?
I am happy to see that GCA has moved the book into the "Inspirational" section where it rightly belongs: great photography!
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dirtbag
climber
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Actually...it was in the MSM a few months ago.
You misunderstand MSM's motives. For the most part they are not some coordinated entity working with the neocons (okay...Faux News actually does that). They are fierce competitors bringing stories that interest a critical mass of readers/viewers and therefore will make $$$.
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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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This sort of thing has been going on a lot lately. Up here, until very recently, one of the community colleges has been offering a "geology" course which is taught by a creationist. The description in the catalog is very generic but the content, even in the field portion, concentrates on how fossils can be only 4,500 years old, how the hand of God created Bretz flood macro features, etc etc. Once the college administrators finally wised up, the instructor was told he had to change the description of what he was teaching in the course catalog.
In other news, Noah's ark has finally been found on Mt Ararat.
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HJ
Social climber
Bozeman, Montana
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Here is a link about Park Service Employees and what they can no longer say about the canyons age.
http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=801
This is disturbing in that part of the mandate of the park service is education, and by saying no comment to the canyons age they are tacitly letting religous belief trump science education. As a former high school teacher, I can assure you that this is no small problem. Allowing religion (which is totally a different interpretation of the world) dictate what can and can not be taught as science is not significantly different than totalitarian communist regimes such as the Soviet Union and China outlawing religion for political purposes. I personally don't care what people believe, but I do care a lot about censorship, and I do care a lot about allowing science to be taught. Our kids need to know.
One other thought. In the Genisis story God does his creation gig in seven days. What was Gods definition of a day? Before there was the sun and the earth, there was certainly no usable definition of a day as our earth day.
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cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
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HJ: One other thought. In the Genisis story God does his creation gig in seven days. What was Gods definition of a day? Before there was the sun and the earth, there was certainly no usable definition of a day as our earth day.
It also says he created light before stars; good luck figuring that one out.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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As I understand it, the fundamentalist Christians who believe the 6000 year old earth story believe so based on passages in Genesis like the one that goes Abraham begat Isaac begat Spanky ...etc. I can't remember how Adam (who, of course, begat Cain and Abel) is exactly tied in with Abraham. In any case, some "religious scholar" in the middle ages applied a little math to all of this, made an assumption about the average age of the begatter, and presto, we have an age for the earth.
Now what compels these Christians to actually believe that this guy's calculations reflect the immutable word of God is anyones' guess,
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monolith
Trad climber
Albany,CA
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It was a 'God' day. You know, like 'Dog' year.
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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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Yes, perhaps God made the world in one wild weekend.
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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ah yes, the missing book of Spanky. Hidden in some temple somewhere, most likely.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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All the flood stories come out of the great floods that really did occur 15,000 years ago as the Ice Age ended.
JDF
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Well there you have it.
Straight from Spanky.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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So, if we have Spanky, who is "Our gang?"
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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It is not!
They're only allowed to answer in dog years.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2007 - 12:33am PT
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You would think at the VERY least they would be able to say "natural historians (geologists, scientists, whatever) date it at X million years old." That way if you are the type of person who doubts such dubious things as "science" you could ignore it.
Presumably if you are one of those people you walked to the Grand Canyon in deerskin shoes and kill your dinner with rocks since the same science that dates the Grand Canyon's age also discovers petroleum reserves and digital watches.
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