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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 23, 2017 - 12:41pm PT
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Someone posted on another thread, a request for treatment centers for alcoholism on the E Coast, preferably one involving the outdoors.
I replied with what I'm pasting below, but as soon as I did the mentioned post disappeared. I had a sister who passed away 6 years ago from heroin addiction and always wondered if ibogaine treatment might have helped her.
Am wondering if anyone on the Taco has had experience with ibogaine treatment, or knows anyone who has? Am wondering how well ibogaine might work for recovering from alcoholism?
My reply to the deleted post:
No recommendations of a specific place, but based on its efficacy with heroin addiction, I'd personally look into ibogaine. Ibogaine is controversial, but I've heard of a number of stories where its worked for heroin addicts. Alcohol seems hard to kick as well.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ibogaine+treatment+for+alcoholism
edit - Also, per the earlier request, does anyone have recommendations for alcohol treatment centers on the E Coast, involving the outdoors?
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c wilmot
climber
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Jul 23, 2017 - 01:24pm PT
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Sorry - that was me.
thanks for the reply. My brother literally has crawled inside a bottle. I didn't really understand the term until I saw it. Sorry to hear about the loss of your sister. It's tragic how many lives are lost to heroin.
I will look into ibogaine. I am not sure my brother is in a good enough physical shape to benifit from it though. But as a yankee alcoholic myself-albeit a functioning one- it could be of use when I decide to try and stop my own excesses
I really wish alcohol was regulated like tobacco in terms of marketing. By the time you realize your drinking is not normal- you are already addicted. But in every commercial - drinking is advertised as normal- even expected. I really wish I had grown up in an environment where getting f*#ked up was not considered something to do
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 23, 2017 - 04:13pm PT
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Ibogaine is not obtainable in the US. (at least legally)
It is a psychoactive agent, which means trading one addictive substance for another...sometimes a good strategy, but usually not.
It's important to remember that it is relatively trivial to withdraw a person from most addictive substances, certainly heroin and alcohol. The challenge is keeping them off, or switching to something else.
The use of the addicted substance is generally the symptom of an underlying issue. which if not successfully addressed, usually drops the person back to the bottom of the pit rather quickly.
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c wilmot
climber
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Jul 23, 2017 - 04:29pm PT
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Ken m- alcoholics can die if they go cold turkey. My brothers first time in rehab resulted in an alcohol withdrawal siezure in which he knocked out his front teeth.
He now uses the threat of a seizure as a reason to keep drinking nonstop
Much of the treatments for heroin seem to involve switching the user to a different from of opioids such as suboxone or methadone.
I get what you are saying- but I think you are glossing over how hard it is for someone to get clean- even for a day
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Nuglet
Trad climber
Orange Murica!
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Jul 23, 2017 - 05:07pm PT
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A family member had good results using Naltrexone to treat alcoholism.
She would get a drink, then just forget about it. After 30 days, she didn't even pour the drink.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 23, 2017 - 06:08pm PT
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Ken m- alcoholics can die if they go cold turkey.
Yep, that was my experience with the first 10,000 or so I treated. I think I still hold the Kern County record for the most IV Valium given to stop alcoholic withdrawal seizures (the DTs). 480mg IV Push. Didn't work. Put a tube into his stomach, and tossed an oz of booze--stopped almost instantly. It was hard to find in a county hospital!
Alcohol, in my experience, was by far the most dangerous to withdraw from. Easy to manage, although probably not on one's own. Hard to stay off, though.
Naltrexone can be helpful, but doesn't work for most.
One of the biggest problems with any medication treatment is that often, although they say they are, the don't take the medication. And wonder why it doesn't work? Gotta break through the games.
A comprehensive drug screen is often very revealing.
Believe me Ken, Ibogaine is about as far from addictive as you can get, for the same reasons people aren't addicted to mushrooms, ayahuasca, salvia, or acid.
Ask any person who is clean, having gone through 12-steps, if someone using any of those is "clean"
Ketamine is similar to Ibogaine, is widely available in the US, has broad research behind it's use.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26807959
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c wilmot
climber
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Jul 23, 2017 - 06:26pm PT
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The problem with naltrexone is that you have to be sober for it to be administered. No doctor will give it to him until he gets sober( because of his seizure history)- which he refuses to do in a traditional rehab center
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