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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 23, 2017 - 01:27pm PT
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I know that there are groups within religious organizations that do good work. Some provide food, clothing and shelter for the poor. That, I commend. Even so, those things are often offered with strings attached. They could be considered a subtle form of coercion, which doesn't seem to be a tenet of spirituality to me. But, other than charitable acts, I have to question whether the function of religion has jumped the shark.
Religion was designed, from inception, as a way to control people; what they think, how they behave, and how they interact with others. Sometimes those things deemed as pious were actually orders intended to strengthen and protect territory.
Do we really need, today, a set of rules as ordained by a particular sect which by nature sets itself apart from all other sentient beings, to respect and interact kindly or fairly with those others? Does a person require a commandment to know it is unhealthy to want the things our neighbor has but we as yet have not, to a point where that jealously affects our thinking in a negative way? Must we be told to be respectful of our parents, and further, why must we be compelled to do so, when that parent may be abusive to the point of causing emotional or physical harm? Is the use of religious affiliation to find friends to socialize with, partners to pair up with, mentors to show us a way to live really in our best interest?
For those who consider themselves religious – what differences would occur in your life if that affiliation to a specific religious sect were disintegrated? Would be identifying as a “spiritual” person be enough for you? Why, or why not?
I know our constitution holds religious freedom as a right, but frankly, I think that right has been abused to a point it has become a detriment to our society, and perhaps that right should remain as law so long as one person still practices a religious faith. Then again, people at one time had the “right” to disallow other types of people entrance into buildings, neighborhoods, jobs and even simple freedom of movement. This was, of course, at the expense of the basic rights of those people - something that should have been clear to any decent human being. Yet, they persisted in the behavior until they were encouraged to stop by way of law. We, as a nation, were smart enough to step back from those beliefs, even as portions of the population resisted and even do so to this very day.
Beyond our own country, if we look at religion as a worldwide “problem,” the issues broaden considerably. I'll leave that statement to stand alone, for those willing to ponder it to allow their minds to wander where they will.
Would you be willing to sacrifice “your” religion, if you believed it might reduce the conflicts which you may deem as unacceptable that are occurring within another religion? If only things were so simple, and of course they are not, but, for a moment pretend that they are. How would you answer that question: Would you be willing to walk away from all affiliation to your religion if you knew it would eventually bring about world peace, and why or why not?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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May 23, 2017 - 01:49pm PT
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Religion was designed, from inception, as a way to control people; what they think, how they behave, and how they interact with others.
Are you saying political parties are religions?
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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May 23, 2017 - 02:33pm PT
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Since forever! The ideas that make up all religions have their roots in the means to control, deprive, segregate, the masses for the benifit of the few; (priests, medicine men, etc),
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 23, 2017 - 02:44pm PT
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FSM "the only dogma allowed in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the rejection of dogma"
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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May 23, 2017 - 02:57pm PT
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The only church that illuminates is a burning church.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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May 23, 2017 - 03:05pm PT
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WC Fields said something like "If I found a church that didn't believe in knocking all the other churches I might join it"
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WBraun
climber
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May 23, 2017 - 03:08pm PT
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If it does harm it's NOT a religion and only masquerading as a religion.
Stoopid clueless people ......
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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May 23, 2017 - 03:09pm PT
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you spelled Ideologies wrong.
I think ideologies allow for people to accept a pre-determined pattern of behavior that doens't allow for individualism. Group think in all it's forms is not good as a whole but can be amazing in a singular goal.
If you want to build the pyramids or explore the west or kill all the jews you almost NEED to have some kind of singular mentality. Just be super careful who is behind it.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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May 23, 2017 - 03:13pm PT
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If it does harm it's NOT a religion and only masquerading as a religion.
Stoopid clueless people ......
Either you're wrong or we will argue semantics about definitions of words which doesn't sound too fun.
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WBraun
climber
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May 23, 2017 - 03:16pm PT
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You don't eevn know what religion really is.
You've never seen it yet.
All you've ever seen is dogma.
That's all you know ......
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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May 23, 2017 - 03:19pm PT
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OK so the second one
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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May 23, 2017 - 04:39pm PT
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"the only dogma allowed in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the rejection of dogma"
So... you are saying that Flying Spagetti monster worshippers are Quakers?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 23, 2017 - 04:44pm PT
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Happie, have you read Kurt Gödel's Ontological Proof?
Get back to us when you have.
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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May 24, 2017 - 05:16am PT
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Yes it is.
I saw an eye opening documentary on Saudi Arabia the other day (its on netflix right now). Krakauer's "Under The Banner of Heaven" is a riveting account of the dangers of belief unhinged from rational thought.
Frankly, I feel betrayed by christians' silence, their virtual non-presence in the anti-war movement. It makes no sense to me. In fact, the more I learn about religions of any stripe, the less sense they make to me. They all seem to eventually turn back on themselves - like the ouroboros. It is mind boggling to me how so many millions of people can be duped into following such an obviously fraudulent ideology as Mormonism.
I think it is a symptom of some flaw in the human psyche - this compulsion towards authority. Do we really want to be free? Or, do we just want to be lead? Perhaps religion is a symptom of our refusal to grow up, as a species. We're still stuck in some Freudian parent fetish authoritarian nightmare. I don't think humanity will ever be free until we sever the chains of religious belief.
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DanaB
climber
CT
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May 24, 2017 - 06:31am PT
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The great swami Sklar-al-andi said of religion: "Maybe if all sit here quietly, it will go away."
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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May 24, 2017 - 07:16am PT
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Maybe when it leads to NO ACTION because prayer will get you there? Then it is doing nothing where taking action would help. Plus, you gotta love the COEXIST stickers on the 50k+ SUVs in the upscale sporto zones and I'm not talking ball sports.
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WBraun
climber
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May 24, 2017 - 07:20am PT
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The atheists worship money and power and control their people like slaves to further their money and power.
From that, they start perpetual wars to keep the money and power going.
The religion of America ......
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Floyd Hayes
Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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May 24, 2017 - 07:33am PT
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There are plenty of "religious" people who choose to believe in a supreme being AND wish to live in harmony with others, without imposing their views upon or controlling others in any coercive way. They are doing more good than harm, and disparaging them is doing more harm than good.
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