A Response to Trumpism

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Mark Force

Trad climber

Ashland, Oregon

Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 11, 2016 - 02:39pm PT

Would have preferred Warren Buffett. Voted for Clinton. Arguably the most qualifiied politician to be president since...Eisenhower?

Emails and Benghazi? Both previous Secretaries of State Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powelll couldn't figure out why there was such a fuss. There were a few Benghazis during Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Reagan without wanting the Secretary Of States head. Clinton had been for funding to bolster embassy security and had been refused by Congress. Stevens chose to operate out of Benghazi though Clinton had advised he operate out of Tripoli where the embassy was better secured.

She should have mea culpaed right off the bat and submitted all the emails immediately. Bad call. Otherwise, sheesh!?

The Clinton Foundation provides ~$200 million a year to charity which is ~ 87% of their revenue, the are rated 93/100 for transparency, and are a platinum rated charity with Charity Navigator, the top charity rating service according to the Wall Street Journal.

When looking up the Trump Foundation it is not considered eligible to be rated. That is the same story for the next two charity rating agencies recommended by the WSJ.

There has been an alternate reality built around Clinton that I find bizarre. And, the decision of many to vote for Trump just to have something different in Washington? Reckless, immature, and simple minded. A doctor that I have mentored and is a naturopath voted for Trump because he is against mandatory vaccination, unlike Clinton. The rest wasn't really part of his equation. Wow.

Trump expresses an uncontrolled Id unfettered by neocortex functions that represents our primitive reptilian impulses. It resonates for people that find that way of being compelling. Sadly.

The long term view is that this event may be useful in that it will end up laying bare the lie that is Trumpism and the multiple lies of the Republican Party since Reagan. I find it interesting that the US was the largest lender nation in the world when the idea of trickle down economics was instituted during Reagan and we are now the largest debtor nation in the world. But, hey, If you like what you're getting just keep doing what you're doing.

It's interesting that many conservatives have nostalgia for the 50s when the top end tax rate was much higher and much of that went to infrastructure, public R&D, and full financing of our public institutions. This was also before the Glass-Steagall Act was still in place to prevent financial institutions gambling with investors money. Republican dismantling of this allowed the crash of 2007 that came close to bringing down the international economy. And, by the way - Obama didn't cause it. He inherited it. THe crash was already a done deal when he was taking oath.

Now the Repubican Party hold the reins, so they can't bitch about what happens. The fundamental unreality of the platform will be laid out for all to see.

Not that the Democratic party has their sh#t together. They haven't been clear about their vision and their mission of service. They got their wake up call. And, the left side of that party is just annoying - get a job and stop whining! Rise by your merits and hard work.

I consider myself centrist libetarian so no party totally represents me - including the Libertarian Party that seems to be largely comprised of Tea Party folks that don't want to pay anything, but want the government to "stay out of my medicare and social security," conspiracy theorists that think "chem trails" are a plot by the government for thought and population control, militia nutters, and tax evaders that think they shouldn't have to pay taxes and then complain about potholes in the road.

Be clear that Trump won the electoral college, but not the majority of the vote.

Here is some irony for you.

"Trump's judgement on the protests (which are set to continue tonight) seems typically hypocritical considering his reaction to Obama's reelection in 2012. On November 7th that year, Trump tweeted that US citizens should "march on Washington and stop this travesty," and that the country needed to "fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice."

~ from The Verge

Here's a Trump tweet from 2012 -

"We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!"

Here is a tweet from yesterday -

"Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair!"

Now, this is all starting to look like the Three Stooges and would be funny if it weren't so dangerous. Suggested cohorts are Giuliani (Attorney General), Newt Gingrich (Secretary of State), Steve Bannon (Chief of Staff), and Sarah Palin (Secretary of the Interior?? Are you effing kidding me?? That's like making has been suggested Myron Ebell, aclimate shift denier, for

This scenario is starting to look like it is leaning toward a governance modeled after "The Lord of the Flies."

He'd better get used to the first amendment cuz' it ain't going away. He's such a whiner.

So, anyway. Bitching will only go so far. The next step is to plan and act wisely.

Yvon Chouinard, regardless of what you happen to think of him - in general - wisely says "Vote for the planet."

Here are actions I plan to take in response to current trends in our governance.

First is to support presrvation of the natural world, in part just because, but in greater part sustainabilty is a good idea if you want your offpring to have a world that supports human life (Hey, Mother Nature will be fine in the long run after we've shot ourselves in the head). And, damage done now may not be fixable later.

Second goal is to preserve civil liberties. Trump has repeatedly shown that he doesn't understand this aspect of our foundation.

Third goal is to support the emerging world changing technology - sustainable energy systems and agriculture. Steel manufacturing is not coming back to the US in any large way. The industries that Trump has promised to restore aren't on the things to do based on reality list. All those promises he made are false promises.

Those manufacturing industries represent previous technological waves.

The US enjoys it's prominent position in the world because of "owning" the last few technological revolutions/waves. While Great Britain owned the first industrial revolution, we owned the second one exemplified by the "assembly line." We also led and controlled technological waves that have followed - Industrial Agriculture (often referred to by the misnomer "The Green Revolution"), Scientific-Technical, Digital, and Information.

The next two waves are -

1) Sustainable agriculture/agro-ecology. This will be free of GMOs and pesticides-herbicides and will drive yeilds through emerging soil science technologies and crop rotation and integrated planting.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/30/business/gmo-promise-falls-short.html

2) Sustainable energy systems. China knows this is the next technological wave that will determine the most dominant economy/country in the near future. Who owns essentially all of the lithium reserves in South America? China. Who owns most of the rare earth metals in the world? China. This is what is behind their investments in mining reserves in Africa, Australia, and even Afghanistan.

China is clear about the future and is working diligently to control it. We are acting like children thinking the answer is to make steel again.

Going back to the Industrial Wave is not in our national intrests and doesn't serve the bigger picture. It doesn't ultimately serve people who are feeling the pinch from that technological waves' natural decline. To put the disenfranchised to work in rebuilding our infrastructure and retrain them to have ownership in the sustainable agriculture and energy waves.

Interestingly, federal investment in infrastructure and R&D made our "ownership" of these technological waves possible. Where did the money come from? Taxes. Especially, the tax structure of the 50s that required that the high earners paid at a tax rate commensurate with their utilization and enjoyment of the infrastructure, including stable rule of law, that supported their prosperity.

What I'm advocating will lead to higher taxes for me. I'm OK with that. It's not all about me.

“Taxes are what we pay for civilized society.” ~ US Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

Fourth, promote civility. We Americans have been traditionally known to have, generally, a remarkably civil society. We need to restore this standard and principle. To this end, we need to act civilly, even when it is not present otherwise.

We need to be less polarized, not more polarized. We need to use reason more and blind passion less. We need to remember at the core we all want basically the same things. We need to keep in mind that hatred in all of its' manifestations is primarily - overt or covert - is and expression of ignorance and suffering (mostly pain and fear).

We need to realize that it is overall more effective to stand and work for something rather than fight against a thing - not that taking a stand against some things - pillage of commonwealth resources or against assaults of women, for instance.

Doing Something
1) I have donated to the Sierra Club, National Resources Defense Council, Environmental Defense Fund, and 1% for the Planet. I plan to donate monthly.
Sierra Club
http://www.sierraclub.org
National Resources Defense Council
https://www.nrdc.org
Environmental Defense Fund,
https://www.edf.org
1% for the Planet
http://onepercentfortheplanet.org

2) I have donated to The Union of Concerned Scientists, Food and Water Watch, and Center for Food Safety. I plan to donate monthly.
The Union of Concerned Scientists
http://www.ucsusa.org
Food and Water Watch
http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org
Center for Food Safety
http://www.centerforfoodsafety.org

3) I have joined the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). I plan to donate monthly.
American Civil Liberties Union
https://www.aclu.org

4) I have been contributing monthly to Save the Children Fund with the money directed within the US because kids here in this country go hungry and plan to continue.
Save the Children Fund
http://www.savethechildren.org

5) I plan to make a study of civilty and work toward practicing civility moment by moment, to the best of my ability.

5) The Rogue Valley where I live in southern Oregon is an area currently developing sustainable agriculture and energy systems. My wife and I have recently moved here and plan to become more involved with local groups to support these developments. The ideal is to be a model for other areas of the country.

This is all to make a statement that puts me under the obligation to be true to my word. It is also to put out ideas, concepts and resources for you to develop your own ideas and plans for supporting a future that promotes liberty for all, sustainability and perpetuation of our Founders ideals.

Unlike Trump who has a long history of unfulfilled promises of charity, I will provide receipts upon request.

steve s

Trad climber

eldo

Nov 11, 2016 - 02:46pm PT

Thanks for the great thread and post Mark. Sums up a lot of things nicely.

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Nov 11, 2016 - 02:48pm PT

Doesn't change a thing. Donald Trump is our President and the leader of the Free World.

Ha!

divad

Trad climber

wmass

Nov 11, 2016 - 02:50pm PT

Trump has taken Canada already?

John M

climber

Nov 11, 2016 - 02:54pm PT

why keep starting new political threads on every new subject? Sure there a quite a few people here who want to post to political stuff, but there are also many who don't like them at all. And this is Chris' website and he has asked that the political stuff be kept to a low roar. If we don't police ourselves, then he will delete them all. He has done that before.

So how about killing this thread and posting to one of the already existent threads..

Mark Force

Trad climber

Ashland, Oregon

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2016 - 02:57pm PT

The tack didn't fit in existing threads. It is a separate conversation.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Denver, CO

Nov 11, 2016 - 02:58pm PT

He'd better get used to the first amendment cuz' it ain't going away. He's such a whiner.

There's much I could say in response to the distortions of the OP, but I'll focus on just one that should be so obvious that the fact it "slipped through" indicates the sort of bias to be found throughout the OP.

If you think that illegal marches down city streets, bridges, tunnels, etc., intentionally blocking traffic without a permit, burning cars and other objects, and threatening/attacking other human beings counts as "first amendment protected speech," then you have a very distorted notion of what counts as "protected speech."

If Clinton had won, and "Trump supporters" were protesting the way that now "Clinton supporters" are, you guys would be all over it, railing on how "the rule of law must be followed," and "quit rioting just to prove how idiotic you are! Your guy lost. Get over it, and quit burning things!"

So, right back atcha, "Clinton supporters." Quit burning things and rioting! It's not "free speech," and it's not protected by the first amendment!

And "Clinton supporters" on Supertopo should be vociferous in condemning this behavior, right alongside their vociferous condemnations of similar behavior among "Trump supporters." If you want to condemn it for one side, then at least be consistent. The way "your people" are acting right now is outrageous, and it is not "free speech."

There are many other comparable distortions in the OP.

Fossil climber

Trad climber

Atlin, B. C.

Nov 11, 2016 - 03:03pm PT

Thanks Mark - beautiful summary!

I hope some of the Trumpians are able to read it.

Mark Force

Trad climber

Ashland, Oregon

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2016 - 03:05pm PT

Madbolter, Never said riots were OK any more than the recently reported violence by Trump supporters. Neither is defensible.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Civil disobedience is the active, professed refusal to obey certain laws, demands, and commands of a government, or of an occupying international power. Civil disobedience is a symbolic or ritualistic violation of the law, rather than a rejection of the system as a whole.

Violence is not civil disobedience - it is a crime, no matter who does it. Violation of person or property violates our foundational principles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience

Civil Disobedience by Henry David Thoreau
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~hyper2/thoreau/civil.html

John M

climber

Nov 11, 2016 - 03:05pm PT

I agree.. the rioting is way out of line. Protest is one thing. even so called illegal protests without permits. But malicious damage is out of line. doesn't matter who is doing it.

I did see on one tape that some were trying to stop the people who were doing damage.

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Nov 11, 2016 - 03:52pm PT

^i was wondering

t's not "free speech," and it's not protected by the first amendment!

fuCk you :-)

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Nov 11, 2016 - 03:53pm PT

^^ I'm dual. But I'm not bi. ;)

"If Clinton had won, and "Trump supporters" were protesting the way that now "Clinton supporters" are, you guys would be all over it, railing on how "the rule of law must be followed," and "quit rioting just to prove how idiotic you are! Your guy lost. Get over it, and quit burning things!"

No doubt!

Can you imagine.

My gosh, the more I read here, the more glad I am that Hillary lost. I am far more happy that Hillary lost than that Trump won. I'm just glad to see a CHANGE.

Can you Hillary supporters comment on Richard's quote above please?

Where will Hillary be in one year?

jgill

Boulder climber

The high prairie of southern Colorado

Nov 11, 2016 - 03:59pm PT

^^^ History

I'm waiting with an open mind to see how the Trump administration fares.

WBraun

climber

Nov 11, 2016 - 03:59pm PT

Where will Hillary be in one year?

Knowing how the cránklððns think they're probably already digging up Oswald's grave to drive the wooden stake into the trumpinator.

Then trying to figure out how to put their girl back in the house ......

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Nov 11, 2016 - 04:03pm PT

good post mark.

i am with you.

one thing that the republicans excelled at with Hillary was smear. smear enough false lies and BS and it begins to stick, even if its false. Hillary was the first 1st lady to really try and work towards something, healthcare, and ever since then the GOP (grab our pussy family values party) has had it in for her. the smear continued when she was Sec State. Grab Our Pussy guys knew she was going to run, so they chose to smear her. unfortunately, it worked. they might try again on someone.

it is unconscionable that a capable woman was smeared, but she scared the Grab Our Pussy guys.

John M

climber

Nov 11, 2016 - 04:04pm PT

Pete,

Yes.. we needed change.. but how that change comes about is important. Trump is a loose cannon and a sociopath. He has little to no control over his mouth when he is challenged. The world stage is not a good place for a loose cannon. Trump has said he wants to declare China a currency manipulator, which would allow sanctions against them. that will piss them off. If he pisses off the chinese then they could start an economic war. One that would devastate us. Even if we win. Or if he pushes militarily in the South China sea, which is what his purported Sec of Defense wants to do, then he could start a physical war. And if he isn't careful with that nut job on North Korea, he would start a nuclear war.

Even if we are able to win whatever is started, we will be in a mess. Thats not the way I would like to see change happen.

Trump has said he would bring back waterboarding and even more severe forms of enhance interrogation.

Is that really the kind of change that you would like to see? He is a dangerous man because he can not control himself.

Mark Force

Trad climber

Ashland, Oregon

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2016 - 04:55pm PT

15, Cool! You read to the bottom. Thanks!

zBrown

Ice climber

Nov 11, 2016 - 04:59pm PT

Trump's own response. Fatigue.

A lot harder than being a TV show meister, eh?

sempervirens

climber

Nov 11, 2016 - 05:02pm PT

It's interesting that many conservatives have nostalgia for the 50s when the top end tax rate was much higher and much of that went to infrastructure, public R&D, and full financing of our public institutions. This was also before the Glass-Steagall Act was still in place to prevent financial institutions gambling with investors money. Republican dismantling of this allowed the crash of 2007 that came close to bringing down the international economy.

Important typo above, you meant to delete the word "before".
A lot reasonable thought in the original post. Appreciate that. Hope the anti-trump movement can stick to logical arguments. I've been hearing a lot of naive irrational nonsense that IMO only serves to fuel the fire they're tryin' to put out.