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| Messages 1 - 9 of total 9 in this topic |
hossjulia
Trad climber
Eastside
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Oct 13, 2006 - 11:27pm PT
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I have mixed feelings about this article. Some good points, and a lot of guessing and finger pointing.(Mammoth should just pay the fine!)
Unless you understand what the snowpack was like last winter, you have no idea.......
I didn't know McAndrews or Juarez, but I did know Walter.
To say he, and they, are sorely missed is an understatement.
Fine, fine men, all.
RIP
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john hansen
climber
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Oct 13, 2006 - 11:36pm PT
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We are told over and over again in our safty classes not to follow some one into a 'confined space' to make a rescue if that person has collapsed. The air that is killing them will kill you.
Hard to do in a real life situation when your friend is down, but many people have met thier end this way.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Oct 13, 2006 - 11:44pm PT
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Similar to what happens when people dive in to icy ponds to save friends. Within 30 seconds you are dying.
But the accident that happened did not have to happen and was a senseless waste of life.
The vents needed to be clearly marked with 30 ft orange pipe.
Hopefully they did this over the summer.
JDF
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 13, 2006 - 11:54pm PT
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But the accident happened, and they (accidents) will continue. like those dickwads at osha are going to make them go away. Insult to injury for Mammoth. I knew Walter real well as I lived with him for years. It pisses me off, really pisses me off when people try and say it could have been prevented.
Aw, I should just STFU.
Edit; Hi Majid, when you coming back up to the Valley?
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Eastside
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Oct 13, 2006 - 11:56pm PT
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Slope creep is a powerfull thing. And occasionally, 30 feet would not be tall enough. They would have to install lift towers for them to stay. Could be done though.
IMHO, that whole area should be closed off from the top.
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Kartch
climber
belgrade, mt
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Oct 14, 2006 - 12:51am PT
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I was in Keystone last week for the NSAA Fall Risk Management Series. One of the managers from Mammoth was there to discuss the tragic season they had last year (I'll find his name later). He said they were going to apeal the fine (standard procedure). but what was really interesting is how he descibed the fumeral that the Patrollers fell into. he said it has only formed like that twice in twenty years, if it formed at other times no one noticed. Besides that OSHA is treating it like a Confined space which is arguable; are tree wells confined spaces now?
Anyway its a horible thing. A days work gone horribly wrong. I think Mammoth will get the fined reduced and impliment many safety procedures to satisfy Cal OSHA.
One last thing, I like what Lou Dawson said about this topic on Wildsnow.com. In summary, there is a fine line between heroism and following orders. There is a good chance that the patroller who jumped in to save a friend didn't know anything about confined space procedures and even if he did someone trained in it would not naturally recognize the situation as such. He probably didn't think twice.
Peace.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2006 - 01:50am PT
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Hi Werner
I be there next weekend, if you are not busy lets go for a short climb.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Oct 14, 2006 - 08:54am PT
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i agree, that this situation would not have been as easily identifiable as a confined space. plus it is a naturally formed confined space. and with all the snow...
fines against companies like this should be paid to the family members. that way the true colors of the company would be apparent if the company fights it.
while each of these situations are different, in industrial settings confined space rules must be followed. at the plant i work at each confined space is clearly marked and recorded and entry procedures are already pre-determined. obviously this is a more difficult thing to even try and do at a naturally occurring and changing mountain environment.
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| Messages 1 - 9 of total 9 in this topic |
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