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westhegimp
Social climber
granada hills
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 25, 2014 - 02:28am PT
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Hey everybody I have a ridiculously easy safety tip that could save your lives. Because this is so obvious you all are probably doing this already. I feel a bit guilty not bringing this up before now but today I heard a podcast that featured a man who fell to the ground from the anchor. He cheated death, & despite the loss of a leg, & being in constant pain, he climbs on. I also know people who have almost died falling from the anchor when they thought they were on belay. For whatever reason there was a communication problem and someone got dropped. Thankfully in both of the close calls involving friends of mine nobody hit the deck too hard. Extreme rope burn but no death.
Anyway this tip is for short single pitch routes where you may be lowered to the ground from the anchor. It is simply this, after climbing to the top clip the rope into the anchor and hold your own weight by holding the other side of the rope. You can lower yourself until your belayer takes over. Basically you just take over the job of your safety until your belayer can take over.
If you are on top rope, when you get to the top, don't just hang there yelling down "TakeTake Got me?" while you wait for your belayer to take all of the slack out if the system. It is easier and faster and safer to just grab the rope going down to your belayer and lower yourself until the slack is out of the system and your belayer has you.
If you are hanging from the anchor, as you would be if you were feeding the rope through the chains, when you are done and ready to be lowered do everything you normally do but hang on to the other side of the rope. In each of the close calls the climber thought that their belayer had them. In every case, if the climber had just held themselves by holding the belayer's side of the rope, things would have been better.
Wes
Edit to say all of your normal safeguards and safety systems are still in use. This is a Last little thing to do if you need to. You don't change anything in your safety systems other than put your hand on the rope. You still say Take or whatever. Also you don't need to do this everytime. There are many times when you won't. If your belayer is pulling you up to the anchor a bit don't do it. This is for those other times. You make the call.
Sorry for any confusion.
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nah000
climber
canuckistan
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Apr 25, 2014 - 03:36am PT
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aaaahhhhh, supertopo: how i love you...
the first two posts in this thread are proof that consensus reality is an illusion and there truly is nothing that can't be argued about.
i'm with you westhegimp. i never imagined [and still don't believe] there is a downside to this technique.
i also do basically the same thing when i'm rappelling [weight the device while still continuing to hang on above the rope]. to my shame/credit this technique has saved my life twice. once leaning back while at a cluster of a belay thinking that i had clipped in and once while leaning back to rapell after a long day multi pitching and quickly realizing that i had unclipped my safety before clipping my atc onto the rope.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 06:07am PT
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If you are that worried about it, bring a double length sling along. Tie in as a prussik to the belayer's side of the rope, then clip the other end in to your harness. Presto, instant dead mans brake.
I use it guiding all the time. I don't trust my clients to safely lower me. It only took one time of nearly getting dropped to figure that one out.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Apr 25, 2014 - 09:10am PT
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Isn't "DON'T DROP ME" one of those simple commands we all do? Much like "on belay" or "Clllimmmbingggg"? Thanks for the tip there.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Apr 25, 2014 - 09:24am PT
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I almost always grab the other side before committing to the lower. I've been consciously making it a standard procedure for myself even more than I used to and before that I double check my knot buckle and anchor.
These little things cause so many tragedies every season and no one is immune to such simple errors.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Apr 25, 2014 - 10:10am PT
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This is why you should wear a wing suit when belayed by such individuals.
If they drop you, you stand a good chance of being able to direct the path of your fall and take them out.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Apr 25, 2014 - 10:24am PT
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Maybe I'm too old, but I totally agree with Dean on this. If I'm not comfortable with the belayer, I won't take a belay.
Peace
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RP3
Big Wall climber
Sonora
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Apr 25, 2014 - 10:33am PT
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This technique subtracts a solid three seconds when doing your toprope speed ascents.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Apr 25, 2014 - 10:35am PT
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Dean nails it....
Wes, I don't see how holding the rope make it much safer....
If you did something really really stupid like Knot tying your Knot it would come out of your harness.... and you will be holding the cord on the wrong side!!!!!!
I just look down, pull on the cord to make sure the knot is right, check the rope in the anchors and let go. Take a little fall...
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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Apr 25, 2014 - 10:43am PT
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Lots of accidents occur due to simple error and minor miscommunication.
If Im climbing with you, then we trust each other with our lives in that circumstance. That doesnt make us infallable. It also means that we can respect each others opinion when it comes to safety.
If you,re the type who gets offended when I grab the belay side of the rope before you lower me, or check your tie-in before you climb, or your belay set-up before I climb... well then maybe we should find new partners.
I,ve never been offended when someone has asked me to do something that makes them feel safer. And I sure wont feel bad about speaking out. But if my partner doesnt like it, there are other partners to climb with. Your ego,s just not that important to me.
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craig morris
Trad climber
la
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Apr 25, 2014 - 10:45am PT
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Busy sport crags have lots of distractions. I always put a hand on the rope to transfer my weight till i feel I'm held. I also use names
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julton
climber
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Apr 25, 2014 - 11:12am PT
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I agree with johnnyrig. The brotherhood of the rope ideal is nice but people make mistakes sometimes. I know two guys who have been nearly constant partners for 30 years and this simple trick saved one of them on a pitch that ended out of sight and hearing range.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 25, 2014 - 11:13am PT
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^^^+1
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westhegimp
Social climber
granada hills
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2014 - 11:21am PT
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I agree Dean.
I believe that the gentleman in the podcast was climbing with his long time partner. I think they were in their 40s and had been long time climbers at this point. . I think they were climbing a single pitch crack line. Rain earlier in the day forced a retreat from their multipitch objective.
When they agreed to do the line and do some tr laps. One guy thought one thing the other guy thought something else. Guy at the top goes off belay and makes an anchor and then gets ready to be lowered. He says something like ready!? or On belay!? His buddie is thinking he will be belayed from above. He is scrambling to put his shoes on and is not ready to lower his friend. When he hears his friend call down he thinks his partner has made an anchor is ready to belay him up, so he says something like Ok.
In my experience, I am the one who will be in the hospital, I will be the one out of work, I will be at home rehabbing and not climbing, if I get injured. So I just handle it.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 25, 2014 - 11:28am PT
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Much simpler and safer solution
1) If TRing you should never be taken off belay
2) On a single pitch route, if leading, why would
you ever go off belay even when making the anchor????
Just stay on betray.
The above is much simpler/safer than this hand over hand crap.
2a) And +1 to what Dingus said about trust.
kev
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julton
climber
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Apr 25, 2014 - 11:43am PT
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"2) On a single pitch route, if leading, why would
you ever go off belay even when making the anchor????
Just stay on betray."
You really can't come up with a scenario?
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 11:48am PT
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Some belayers in the gym are in a hurry to lower you, and if you hesitate or grab the rope on the other side, you end up in a little free fall because they are letting out slack thinking that you are lowering, while you are fixed in position. By the time they notice, you are either hanging on scared still or have already went through a little free-fall. It's a bit unnerving.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Apr 25, 2014 - 11:48am PT
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I forgot to tie into the rope once when my pregnant wife was belaying me, that was scary!
Grabbing the rope is a good idea and better than nothing, but I like to grab the anchor until the rope is tight, it saved me when I made that stupid mistake!
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Apr 25, 2014 - 11:48am PT
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Trust but verify, as they say in the nuclear non-proliferation biz.
If I'm climbing with someone I trust and if communication at the moment of lowering is excellent (good visual and audible contact), then I usually don't do anything to back myself up---I can see they have me on belay and trust them to do it right.
On the other hand:
If I don't know my partner well, or if I trust them but communication is difficult (out of sight, hard to hear, or both) then I'm going to take some kind of back-up action (grabbing the other end of the rope is one of the options but not the only one). Not doing this would involve disregarding the sad history---one which most of us know about---of very experienced and trustworthy people somehow miscommunicating when it isn't easy to see or hear.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 25, 2014 - 11:49am PT
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I do what is absolutely necessary according to time and circumstance to insure everyone's safety.
There's no one size fits all as there are so many variables in the the climbing environment.
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