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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 5, 2006 - 12:38am PT
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Well I've had a week to ponder Gibby's MELtdown, and my feelings haven't altered one bit.
This is something that's hit right here in Taco City recently when, upset with my ridicule, a certain poster resorted to addressing me as "jewboy".
I'm glad to acknowledge that many people jumped down his throat which resulted in a lame apology proffering the excuse that it was the alcohol talking.
It is my feeling that alcohol doesn't talk. It merely lubricates the jaw.
So I for one don't accept a glib cop-out by Mr. MELtdown.
But here is the really weird part; in a thread about the Road Warrior's juice patrol the same poster who pleaded ethanol poisoning then showed up to claim that alcohol was like "truth serum" and that Bravefart was expressing his heartfelt sentiment.
It really surprised me nobody called him on it.
But now that the weekend is here a little entertainment is in order so I figured I would resurrect the issue, kick back, and watch him tap dance.
Yoo hoo. Batter up.
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JAK
climber
Central NC
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1) I think Mel Gibson's a complete frickin' kook.
2) I think Mel Gibson's an anti-semite. I have a hard time believing anyone who has seen The Passion of the Mel would rationally think otherwise. It was obviously designed to demonize the Jews.
I do have a question Ron - are you actually Jewish, or just Hebrew? There is a difference, although I recgonize most people overlook it.
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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I think, we should all start drinking more. Jesus loved wine so much he turned all that mother f*#king water into wine! Passion of drinking!@
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2006 - 01:12am PT
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Hebrew?
That's an interesting distinction.
I assume you are differentiating those with specific religious belief from those of ethnic descent.
My religious beliefs are exactly that. I don't debate them.
Elsewhere a climber named Brian Smoot suggested that as a largely secular jew I had no right to complain about my neighbor's kids putting up a disparaging sign with swastikas.
My grandfather played a major role in my upbringing. Three of his siblings along with their spouses and children died in the camps.
I doubt very much that the Nazis would have given any of them a pass if they claimed to be secular jews.
Juan, what's that called? The hypocrite two step? If you debated a rock it would come out a draw.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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I am happy to see this stuff come up, because it reminds us that there are people who, not when drunk but when sober, actually think the holocaust was a hoax.
But Ron, why are you so upset about jew-boy?
That's a little like me getting upset when my rail road working, high school educated buddy calls me "college-boy" as a slur, isn't it?
Racism is a funny subject. One expert on the subject used to say that we are all racists, but it's how we deal with that that matters. I think she was right.
But you can get into some big arguments telling someone who fancies themselves totally without prejudice that they are a racist, and god forbid you point out any discrepancies in their (in their opinion) 'non-racist' behavior.
As for alcohol as truth serum, could be, rabbit. I think it is safe to say that some people change a lot when they are really drunk, but as to what comes out being the truth or not, I really do not know.
My sh!thead ex-wife, after we were divorced and not on good terms, would get into one of her drunks and call me up and ask if I still loved her, and would I come see her, LOL! When she was sober, this was the furthest thing from her mind. I never could decide what the truth of the matter was.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2006 - 01:45am PT
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Well actually dirt I tend to agree with your "expert". Have you seen the film White Man's Burden?
Made me very uncomfortable to realize that I battled my own innate prejudice.
But just because alcohol can cause far more noticeable changes in some than in others doesn't mean it doesn't bring out the inner person.
The bigger the change, the phonier the person.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Ron,
I have been saying prayers for the Jewish people for the last three weeks. What's the deal. If you want to keep thinking I hate Jews thats you option.
Juan
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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I thought that the German racial biologists of the Ahnenerbe worked long and hard to identify distinctly Jewish racial characteristics and were, in the end, unable to come up with any acceptable formula. In fact, I think they discovered that 12% of German Jews had blonde hair and blue eyes. Even with all the dedicated work they put into their skeleton collection at Strassburg, Himmler's students of Rassenkunde only came up with some vague stuff about fat ear lobes and skinny backs. So what's all this business about pure ethnic versus religious Jews? Just wondering . . .
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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yeah, the distinction has always made me wonder. is being a jew both a race and a religion? what other religions give themeselves a racial distinction.
a drunken biggot is the same when sober only more pitiful.
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Ultrabiker
Ice climber
Eastside
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I can't stand folks that put up Bolt Ladder's next to cracks!!!
Regardless of their Race, Color, Religion, Creed and any of that Civil Rights American BS!!!!! What a bunch of insecure whining! Who cares??? I thought that this was a "CLIMBING FORUM" not a platform to share ones insecurities. Shut up and go climb with some Style and Class! WHAAAAAAAAA!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2006 - 09:59am PT
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Looks like Prettyboy has a new name.
Aren't you here a bit early? Normally you don't show up until monday morning.
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Ultrabiker
Ice climber
Eastside
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Hey Piton Ron, can you actually physically climb anything higher than 5.6 without having to pound in a pin and hang from it?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2006 - 10:15am PT
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Supertopians should not be misled. Ultrabutthole did not get his name from his churlish behavior, but rather from his penchant for taking long rides without a seat.
Reportedly he is so stretched out that monkeys fly in and out.
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Ultrabiker
Ice climber
Eastside
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Why thank you, "Super Man"!
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Looks like the ultra-Aryan Nation has rolled in.
There goes the neighborhood.
HEy Ronbo, les go pound in some pins on some 5.6. Tar-baby can hang there with us, and we'll drink a beer and have a good time.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2006 - 11:41am PT
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Dirt,
brilliant actually. We are no longer OT.
Alcohol, bigots and climbing, you tied it all together with a few lines.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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HAHA, hey Ronbo, even a blind hog finds an acorn every now and then.
But the idea of hanging on some pins with you and Tar-baby on a 5.6 has a great appeal. The remoter and further from wankers the better.
We can even drink German beer, haha! No aryan wankabees invited.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2006 - 04:07pm PT
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Dirt, the term Aryan has gotten a bad rap thanks to the consequences of the weaknesses of some of its proponents. It should be seen in perspective as merely an ethnic description in the same vein as, for example was noted earlier, Hebrew.
I've enjoyed some German beers. After all my father was born in Berlin when Hitler (actually wasn't his real family name something like Schikkelgruber?) was merely another failed Austrian landscape painter. Like many europeans my father believed in teaching his kids to enjoy drinking in moderation.
I remember not liking the beer (or watered down wine) he gave us at first.
There's a very interesting film written and directed by Menno Meyjes and starring John Cusack that takes place in Germany in the 20s and looks at Hitler as a failing artist posing a tragic "what if" question.
The name of the film is simply "Max".
Anyway, beer is one of those wonderful things that has spread worldwide and yet each culture has made its own distinctive style of libation. I only wish it was as easy to bridge cultural borders without the lubricating effects of ethanol.
Still, aside from reduced co-ordination and slurred speach, it never induced me to abandon my political beliefs or values.
I still think its a cop-out to say that it was the alcohol talking.
BTW my father moved to Argentina in '35 and was taught to speak english in the late 40s by an art and music lover from Amsterdam who, having a German mother, had been raised speaking german (and english) as well as her native Dutch.
She would years later become my mother.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Ron,
I felt angered and disappointed by Mel's comments. Truly, I don't get it.
Mel's film The Passion of the Christ is biblically and historically accurate. It does not portray the Jewish people negatively, but rather the Jewish religious leaders of the time who persecuted and ultimately caused the death of Jesus, apparently for political reasons.
That ain't my point.
Prior to the film's release, I watched a fairly lengthy interview of Mel. In it the interviewer suggested that some might consider the film anti-Semetic.
Ron, I want you to know that in this interview, Mel spoke very highly of the Jewish people, and referred to them correctly as God's Chosen. He showed great respect and deference for both the people and the religion. I wish you could see the interview, and hope that you can.
Which is why his drunken comments came as such a surprise and disappointment to me.
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