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BlackSpider
Ice climber
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Oct 23, 2013 - 11:11pm PT
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Supertopo: where lots people who give a sh#t about a single tree deny science (without having any expertise to do so) that shows long-term deleterious effects on the earth as a whole, and vote for politicians who promote policies that advance environmental degradation in the name of corporate profit.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2013 - 11:31pm PT
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Say Jim, is it could up there in Canada?
EDIT: Proof that I do read some of this stuff. Could, could be cold in the statedment above.
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MisterE
climber
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Oct 23, 2013 - 11:42pm PT
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Damage control.
You think this is going to go any better?
I, for one think it sucks that we cannot have reasonable discussions about important processes.
The latest string of deletions should service as good advice for thinking before you post if you care at all about the community you "claim" to be a part of.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2013 - 11:20pm PT
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Say Jim, that's quite a video ya posted there.
Weird thing is that there are so few trees in it, even though at least some seems to be filmed at "Wood"stock. The young woman at the end is sure pretty and makes the whole thing worth watching.
On reflection, there weren't many trees at Altamont either. How are going to find any shelter with so few trees?
.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Oct 24, 2013 - 11:22pm PT
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zBrown . . . my Brother from another Mother . . . you are the best.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Oct 24, 2013 - 11:44pm PT
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Z-Brown: Thank you for the links. I've read every post on the links over the last few days, and I am still thinking about a proper response.
However!
It appears that the guilty party never responded until he was forced to respond.
The response on his web-site still attempted to defend his in-defensible cutting of that really old and wonderful tree in a beautiful place.
and finally, if I had been hiking and climbing with a climbing pal that had a saw in his pack, or hand, and then watched him cut down such a old and wonderful tree, without stopping him-----I would expect to share the guilt.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2013 - 12:21am PT
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Why thank you Jim. I've never gotten a compliment on the ST, except one from Herr Braun. I think it was about a year ago.
But, I'll be walkin' out when I go. Don't get stuck, keep movin'.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Man if I only had a dollar.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 25, 2013 - 12:33am PT
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Z-Brown is always good man!
Be well my friend ......
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Oct 25, 2013 - 06:25am PT
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again it really depends on where you live. It is really easy for western climbers to get on a high horse about about gardening because they have a shitload of clean stone. Even with all that clean stone I bet most climbers would be supprised how much different their classics climb and look now than on the FA.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Oct 25, 2013 - 02:40pm PT
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More I think about it the more levels of stupidity appear. The guy puts up a 5.14 sport route and chops down an old growth tree for it. And then he claims he puts up routes for other people not himself; B.S.; How many of your friends climb 5.14. JK is obviously clueless; hopefully the strong response of disapproval will bring him out of his prolonged adolescence.
Puts up a mini 5.14 sport route so a few of his friends can tell him how they like it. The new route name should be "stupidity" or "shame on me".
Hopefully the other under educated route setters will think twice before doing dumb sh#t like this.
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Oct 25, 2013 - 03:21pm PT
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It'll never be erased Ron. Its been climbed and equipped. Removing the equipment doesn't remove the fact that it is a route. It just make for extra holes in the stone when the next climber comes to re-do it in the future. Which absolutely will happen.
I don't think the area needs anymore negative environmental impact than its already suffered.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Oct 25, 2013 - 03:43pm PT
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The pride of the ascent remains. If the route is to be chopped, it should be chopped now and not by a couple of cockerels eager to make their mark in history 40 years time into the future... It's up to the local community of climbers...
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Oct 25, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
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OK,, how about two iron trees for replacement with sharpened branches and points all aimed upward. Branches sharpened like double edged swords. Guffaw!
I hate it when I agree with you...
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Oct 25, 2013 - 04:00pm PT
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They could have grid bolted the scary-tree-branch section in the first place. But then what would people have said?
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Oct 25, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
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It'll never be erased Ron. Its been climbed and equipped. Removing the equipment doesn't remove the fact that it is a route. It just make for extra holes in the stone when the next climber comes to re-do it in the future. Which absolutely will happen.
I don't think the area needs anymore negative environmental impact than its already suffered.
i'm not big on chopping or erasure. but this route is an obvious exception. i'm surprised that pulling the bolts and filling the holes wasn't one of the things kinder offered to do as a fix.
if the route stands, then the moral of the story to many folks will simply be that kinder's mistake was attaching his name to the thing. that's certainly one of the possible morals readers might take from that dpm story.
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Oct 25, 2013 - 04:16pm PT
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It all breaks down into whether you value these natural crags and their surroundings as places of integrity in their own right, or just focus in on one more awesomesauce route for the tick list. They're hugely opposite points of view.
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NilsDavis
Trad climber
Bishop
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I just heard about this whole thing. I put up Treebeard in 2000. ALong with 3-4 other routes at that cliff. You'd think someone would have included the first ascentionist in this whole multi-thread incident, debacle. I still can't get a straight answer though: did Joe cut the Treebeard tree down or was it a different tree?
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Deekaid
climber
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chopping the route won't bring back the trees
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Let us know!