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ricardo
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 19, 2003 - 12:02pm PT
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Yesterday we were leaving the valley around 7:00 pm and saw a ranger scoping out the nose and communicating with some climbers.
Turns out that a large block had come loose beneath dolt tower.. the party that was climbing through when the block bagan to come loose somehow tied off the block (which was about man-size) and then called 911 ..
.. i dont know what became of the block, maybe Link can chime in and tell us what the condition of the block is? .. there had been some discussion of closing off the climb so they could release it? ..
 ricardo
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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May 19, 2003 - 12:17pm PT
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WTF? Just yell "ROCK" and send the thing.
Are you serious? 911 for a loose block on El Cap...?
What has become of climbing?
Maybe we should add another bolt to the route so that we can clip the loose block in...
"there had been some discussion of closing off the climb so they could release it? .."
Welcome to the gym.
Maybe we should close off all of the routes in the Valley that have loose blocks...
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bigwalling
climber
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May 19, 2003 - 12:51pm PT
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That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Loose rock is totally normal! Close the route??? God do you know how much loose sh#t there is on any climb that doesn't get climbed hundreds of times each year?
Grow the f*#k up!
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rbreedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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May 19, 2003 - 01:07pm PT
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The NPS should glue that sucker back on, to preserve the route in its orginal, first ascent condition, as much as possible.
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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May 19, 2003 - 01:14pm PT
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I think one could go a bit easier on ricardol. One glance down at his recent postings in the route beta section makes it clear that he doesn't have a huge amount of experience climbing in the Valley. I think he was just trying to be helpful by pointing out that there is a new loose block on the Nose. Why doesn't someone just type a one sentence blurb on the Nose beta page and put this to rest. Those who want updated beta on the route can find it there and those who don't want to know such things can ignore it entirely. Is it more complciated than that?
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Matt
Trad climber
SF Bay Area
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May 19, 2003 - 01:21pm PT
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It is also likely that such a big loose block that low on the Nose this past wkend would have met w/some discussion and concern, as the route, the base of the route, and every other route on that rock is stacked up and there is a line clear to Groveland to get on them.
We'd planned to do Freeblast on Saturday, but it was a huge clusterfugg- Summer is back and the Valley is more crowded than the gym ever gets... Hey Mr. NPS man- OPEN THE ROAD!!!
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ricardo
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 19, 2003 - 01:27pm PT
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dont shoot the messenger -- i was just reporting what i saw on my drive home --
the YOSAR personnel on-site seemed to be concerned enough since it is likely that the block will kill someone if they dont do something about it ..
YMMV - climb at your own risk ..
.. the actual discussion that took place at the meadow was that they would like to release the block right then and there but there was a party at sickle ledge and they felt uncomfortable with how close they would be to the path of the block .. (and it looked pretty big through the binoculars)
ricardo
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big wall paul
Trad climber
tahoe, CA
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May 19, 2003 - 02:33pm PT
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I'm sure we've all can share our own experiences of falling rock. In this case, a party planning on doing the nose could use another person to act as 'traffic controller' (not that there's many people walking the base of elcap), and then they should cut it loose. I'm still glad that someone rapped down on the Nose in winter and cut loose that block on the Nose. Does anyone remember that one, leaning out over the belay station? Here is a photo I took of that one in 1996: http://geocities.com/amahnken/thenose.html (pic11)
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Legion
Trad climber
The Vertical Wasteland
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May 19, 2003 - 09:04pm PT
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I hope this helps thin the crowds out.
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RB
Social climber
Pasadena, CA
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May 20, 2003 - 08:49pm PT
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The block was 6x8' and ready to go. An NPS ranger was lowered from the top, cleaned it, then rapped off. The rock was large enough to set off several car alarms in El Cap meadow. I'm glad they took the initiative to take care of it. I'm all for leaving the routes in their natural condition, but this thing was fairly large and was going to fall. Better than having it take out a few people.
Glue the rock? Is that natural? It was going to fall one way or another, might as well let it fall when they know there is no one below.
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Lincoln
climber
Yosemite, CA
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May 21, 2003 - 03:23am PT
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Hey guys,
Sorry I didn't hop on here sooner, things have been a bit hectic on my end (and I'm not just talking about loose blocks on El Cap). I'll post more info about the mysterious Nose block on Friday (I'll be gone all day tomorrow, and I'm too darn tired at the moment).
The imporant thing for people to know is that the Nose was temporarily closed (for one day) but is now open again... if you can find a place in line.
More soon, must sleep.
-Link
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Kevin
Social climber
Oak-town
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May 21, 2003 - 04:19pm PT
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I just got off the nose on monday-
The block that they pulled was pretty damn big- I saw it when we went past dolt on saturday( the block hadnt pulled loose by then)
we also heard some rock fall when sleeping on camp 5-
it woke up a few other parties as well-
We were in changing corners when yosar lowered down to trundle it
pretty wild seeing some dudes rapping 2000 feet
But there is a sign up in camp 4 saying that the nose is closed, dated the 18th of may, but we didnt go to c4 before climbing-
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Matt
Trad climber
SF Bay Area
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May 21, 2003 - 04:44pm PT
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Makes you wonder how fast Hans or Dean could run up that thing on TR...
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cadl
Trad climber
Long Beach, CA
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May 24, 2003 - 08:15pm PT
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Just to provide some factual details around the mystery block (which was at the pitch 9 belay above The Stoveleg Crack on The Nose)… we were the party in front of the party that dislodged the block, and were direct witnesses to the entire incident. To provide some context to the situation, it’s important to understand the positions of the various teams on the route (all teams listed are parties of two):
1. Team 1 – comfortably on Dolt Tower (pitch 11)
2. Team 2 (me and my partner) – I’m at the 2 bolt belay 30’ below Dolt (I bypassed the natural belay on pitch 10 using 60m ropes), lead line fixed, already hauling with the pig 5-10’ above the belay on pitch 9. My partner is getting ready to unclip from the belay on pitch 9 and jug our lead line
3. Team 3 (the party that pulled the block) – both team members are sharing the belay stance at the top of pitch 9 with my partner, pig is not hauled yet, leader is antsy to make Dolt Tower (or above) before dark, and asks my partner if they can start leading while my partner is cleaning the pitch.
4. Team 4 – leader is hauling at the belay at the top of 8, while partner is cleaning pitch 8.
Time is somewhere between 4-6pm on Sunday, May 18, everyone is antsy to make Dolt Tower by dark (as you can probably tell, the whole route was stacked with parties). Weather and temp are fine; wind is kicking up making communication difficult. My partner and I have Motorola radios, teams 3 and 4 do not. Team 1 has a cell phone but batteries are dying, we have a cell phone, but it’s in the pig, unknown if Teams 3 and 4 have phones.
If you have the mental picture now, here’s how the incident played out. Team 3 leader yards out on the flake as he starts to lead pitch 10. The death block, approximately 4’x4’ square and 4-6” thick (probably 3-400 lbs.) pivots out about 12”. Team 3 leader pushes the block back into position and starts frantically yelling to Team 4 that they’re in the chop-zone. My partner quickly grabs the end of our lead line (which he is about to begin jugging), and lassos the block (which is anchored to my belay). Team 4 leader quickly assesses his situation (not good!), and quickly transfers onto Team 3’s haul line and jugs to the pitch 9 belay.
Now, there are 4 bodies at the pitch 9 belay (if you’ve never experienced this belay, it’s a sloped stance and sort of fits two people) with Team 4’s follower still in the chop zone. Team 4 leader sets up a quick anchor for the block using 2 green Aliens and the tail of our lead rope. Now the dilemma is getting bodies off of the pitch 9 belay. I lower our bag back to the pitch 9 belay, and my partner and both members of Team 3 jug on our haul line until they’re above the death block, and then transfer onto our lead line.
In the approximately 60-90 minutes of high anxiety of tying off the death block and transferring bodies out of the pitch 9 belay, there are discussions about how to handle the block. Team 4’s gear and the entire length of the Stovelegs (pitches 8 and 9) are in the fall line, the stability and the platform that the block is resting on are unknown, and only a small outward force on the block may cause it to break loose (more on this in the Post Mortem below). We can see other parties between Sickle and the top of pitch 6, gear and/or people at the base of the raps from Sickle, but can’t tell if there are any parties, tourists, etc. at the base of the fall line. It’s windy enough that I can only communicate with my partner via the Motorola radios. Given all these factors, it’s not safe to cut the block loose. However, the block is directly over the Stovelegs and its status is tenuous. There is some discussion of calling the Park Service to confer with them on clearing the area so we can cut the block loose. My partner doesn’t recall there being a definitive decision to call the Park Service; it was more a discussion of “Does anyone have a cell phone?” During intermittent discussions with my partner over the Motorola radios, I call up to Party 1 on Dolt Tower. They do have a phone accessible and the call goes out to the Park Service.
Within 30-60 minutes, the Park Service has a bull horn and spotting scope in El Cap Meadows. The time is now somewhere between 6-7pm. They can see us, we can see them, but we can’t hear them over the wind. We do hear their request to call 911. As Team 1 calls out a second time, their battery dies. Remember, during this time, our phone is still in the pig, and we’re trying to clear bodies out of the pitch 9 belay so we can get Team 4’s follower out of the fall line.
With no new parties ascending the Stovelegs, Teams 2, 3, and 4 all head for Dolt Tower. A 15’ tail of our lead line is cut to secure the block with the two green Aliens. All parties reach Dolt Tower with their respective pigs well after dark (sometime around 11:30-12 midnight).
In the morning, my partner and I (Team 2) and Team 1 decide to descend, while Teams 3 and 4 continue up. At the base of the raps, we meet Linc and one other YOSAR team member (Brian). It’s the first time we had any indication of the Park Service’s plan (I’ll let Linc represent YOSAR’s position).
Post Mortem: I had the opportunity to speak to the YOSAR member who actually pulled the block (the block was trundled around 6:05pm on Monday, May 19). He felt that the block was resting on a stable platform, but that it only took approximately 40 lbs. of outward force to trundle it. He accomplished this manually with no use of a pry bar.
The rest of this post is entirely my opinion:
1. Given the circumstances surrounding the incident (e.g. Team 4’s gear being in the fall line, the late hour of the day, difficult communication between teams, our uncertainty about other parties (both climbers and tourists) at the base of the climb, the inability to communicate with the Park Service, etc.), I think it would have been totally irresponsible for us to cut the block loose on Sunday evening under our own devices.
2. Given the instability of the block, it was my partner’s opinion (since I was at the higher belay, I never actually saw the block. However, I have complete confidence in my partner’s opinion) that the block should somehow be cut loose. The entire length of pitches 8 and 9 of the The Stovelegs was in the fall line, and it was only a matter of time before some party got the chop.
3. In the fatigue and confusion of it all, it never occurred to us to call out on our cell phone the next morning on Monday May 19. Remember, we didn’t get everyone onto Dolt until post-11pm …. It was a long day. Had we thought of that, we may have been able to trundle the block with the Park Service coordinating the clearing of the fall line. Linc, any comments?
4. I have heard some rumor about criticism directed at the Park Service/YOSAR. I don’t know if this is accurate, or the reasons behind the criticism. I have thought about this at length, and can only surface two possible reasons. Again, this is only my conjecture at this point. First, the decision to ‘get involved’ in the first place. Given the lack of communication between the four teams and the Park Service, the Park Service could only gather information from a spotting scope in the Meadow. All they could tell was the relative size of the block compared to the bodies at the belay stance. They would not have further details until Linc and Brian met us at the base on Monday morning. Second, the decision to shut down the east side of El Cap from the Nose to Mescalito on Monday, 5/19. Based on the 3-400 lbs. size of the block and its tenuous position, I don’t think there was any good way of predicting where this block might land. If it hit a small ledge on the way down, who knows where it might have careened. I definitely feel that they did the right thing in marking out a wide swath at the base of the fall zone.
In closing, a few final comments:
1. It’s a bummer for any teams that lost a day on their respective routes. This was one of the unfortunately results of this incident. To head off a potential flame war against me and my partner, I want to reiterate that we were NOT the party that dislodged the block. We just happened to be ‘at the wrong place at the right time.’ We lost 15’ of a nearly brand new lead line, almost lost a green Alien (later recovered from YOSAR), and 2-3 hours of daylight. FYI, the party that DID pull the block refused to contribute pieces to the anchor that temporarily held the block (Team 4 contributed the other Alien). They also offered no apologies, nor offered to compensate either team for the potential loss of the Aliens. When I confronted the leader of Team 3 on Monday morning about the possibility of working out a deal to share the cost of the lost gear (I was only asking for compensation for the Alien (not the cut rope), I offered to work out a deal after their climb was over so they wouldn’t have to loose a piece half way up the route, and I even offered to split the cost), he responded that he would give me a friggin stopper. I won’t out his name in a public forum, but you can guess where I feel he should put his selfish attitude).
2. Of the dozen YOSAR members I met along the way, all we’re the utmost professionals. My hats off to all of you!
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atchafalaya
Trad climber
California
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May 27, 2003 - 12:52pm PT
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Tough making it through that long version about a loose block. The loose block sounds casual, or at least expected on a big wall in the valley, all the other drama on the captain sounds like a nightmare.
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David Nelson
climber
San Francisco
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Jun 30, 2003 - 04:39pm PT
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I was summiting the Nose on May 19 and witnessed the SAR and helicopter crews' work at the top. (Actually, I was trying to relieve myself, thinking I had the entire summit all to my lonesome, when 12 SAR's including two female climbers, came hustling over the top toward the rim.) I spoke softly to the first one by me, a bit embarassed to have my pants partly down, but he ignored me and kept going. Initially I was put off, but yelled my greeting this time, and he looked up at me. It was the great Werner Braun, and I realized my error when I saw his hearing aid. He told me what was going on and went about his business. After things got settled (helicopter landing area marked, etc), he took the time to talk to me and was very nice.
The SAR group told me that the NPS normally just lets falling rocks go. However, in this instance, once someone reports a loose block as a definite and current hazard to climbers in its path, they felt that they would need to investigate. It went up three levels of management and the decision was made to investigate. Two helicopter personnel and (I think it was) 10 SARs hiked up to the summit of El Cap. The helicoper guys marked out a drop zone, and two pallets of gear were dropped off by the helicopter. The SAR's broke out the gear, set up a rappel line (I think it was 1000 ft) plus a belay line (same length), and two SAR's went over the edge. Other NPS personnel cleared out the base of El Cap. The size, location, and instability of the loose block was examined, the danger assessed. It is my understanding that there was a radio discussion and the decision was made to trundle it off.
My thanks to cadl for taking the time to post such an extensive description. It should be obvious that he and his partner, as well as Team 4, did a great service to their fellow climbers (including the ones below in the death zone as well as the hundreds who will be going up this year) by taking time out from their climb, sacrificing 15 feet of their lead line, as well as an Alien, to get something done about the block. My compliments also to the SAR and helicopter crews, who were completely professional and courteous to us. They got their job done but also took the time to answer my questions and explain what they were doing. We owe all these guys and gals our appreciation, not snide comments from the safety of our computer terminals. I got hit on Sickle by a 4" x 4" x 1" rock, on my forearm. It was eensy teensy compared to the block that got trundled, but it hurt like heck, tore my $200 parka, cut my skin, and gave me a 6" diameter bruise that did not resolve for 2 weeks. If it had been larger, might have taken off my arm. We guessed it had come off about 1000 feet higher (the only other party was above the Great Roof). Falling rock is no joke when you are the one getting hit, and extreme care is justified. To the ones who said "just chuck it, it is part of the risk of climbing", I say, how would you feel if it was you and your partner who got injured (or your partner got killed) because someone was cavalier about knocking that block off?
I did learn one jewel from the SAR I would like to share. In dicussing how hot the belay devices were getting, lowering two climbers 1000 ft, one guy mentioned that you can boil a nylon rope without hurting it. If you spit on the belay device and it does not boil, it is not too hot, despite how hot to the touch it is. Thought that this was a great concept.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 30, 2003 - 10:49pm PT
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Thanks for the detailed rundown.
I wouldn't second guess any decision that Werner Braun had a hand in unless I had dang good first hand reasons to. His very being has roots in Yosemite itself.
This isn't the first death block trundled off El Cap for safety's sake. Usually the NPS doesn't get involved but, since they obviously had some time, funds, and perhaps a good excuse for training, I thank them for the public service.
Peace
Karl
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Larry
Trad climber
Reno NV
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It's my opinion that the Park Service could have found better wording for their signs closing the base area.
They said something like "Routes from the Nose to Mescalito are closed due to rockfall."
That sounded a little ridiculous to us, so we ducked under the tape and hiked up along the base of the SE face. (If that's some sort of federal crime...maybe it wasn't us. It was some other guys. Yeah, that's it.)
It must have sounded silly to the party that was starting up the first pitch of the Nose, too.
Now, if the sign had said "Large Death Block about to be cut loose from Dolt Tower" we'd've stayed away! We got word of what was happening after the choppers started landing on top.
When was the block finally trundled? We hung around in the meadow watching the trundlers mill around on the summit, waiting for the fireworks to begin. Finally got bored and left, it was starting to get late. Did it go that same day?
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David Nelson
climber
San Francisco
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As mentioned by cadl above, who was there when it happened, "the block was trundled around 6:05 pm on Monday, May 19." I was talking to tourists in the Meadow the next day and they told me the same story.
I am very interested in the fact that you and others were below the block when SAR was considering knocking it off. I thought that the NPS had used a bullhorn to warn people and had patrolled the area to make sure it was clear. I can see that the NPS could have put up better signs (I know Werner Braun monitors this forum, so he can pass it on to them), but maybe you ought to pay better attention to the sign, and do some investigation before you venture past the tape. The NPS did not have much time to work with, and although a better explanation would have been a more effective deterrent to climbers (an independent lot), I would suggest that you pay some attention to a warning sign and do a bit of investigation (but not from below the purported loose block).
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Tradboy
Social climber
Valley
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Maybe the NPS should've put up a more descriptive sign.
Maybe they could've stationed a ranger at the base warning people.
Perhaps they would've if they had realized that a bunch of idiots were going to ignore the warning and duck under the tape or to start up the wall anyway.
In the unlikely chance that they block did come loose then and killed someone, would you have regretted not taking the extra fifteen minutes to find someone and ask about the reason for the temporary closure?
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