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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 27, 2012 - 03:48pm PT
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Yuri Kruglov reports from the Crimea that a visiting American North Face Team violated strongly held local traditions in establishing a new route on 300 meters high Morcheka, one of their premier traditional crags.
Bolting on abseil seems to have been the major infraction. I don't know the details, so I won't draw conclusions regarding this particular case, but it leads me to some questions.
Climbing, more than ever, has become an Intrernational activity. With modern transportation and the Internet, more and more climbers are road tripping, not just to a neighboring state or province but to far flung countries.
Some areas have extremely strong traditons and ethics- think of the sandstone towers in the former East Germany. Some areas, like Patagonia, never established local ethics or traditions before being overwhelmed by climbers from worldwide. In Patagonia power drills and bolting next to cracks are commonplace.
Questions:
1) I think everyone agrees that local traditions should be respected, but, who knows, maybe someone has a dissenting opinion.
2) What about areas, like Patagonia, that became worldclass climbing venues before ethical
standards and traditions could be established. In the end, all climbing resources become
expendable. There is only a finite amount of quality climbing terrain on this shrinking (and
warming) Planet. Should we somehow try to work cooperatively on an International level to
try to ensure that future generations of climbers have the same resources that we currently enjoy?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sep 27, 2012 - 03:53pm PT
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I wouldn't show up someplace overseas and start rap bolting.
I don't even do that in my own country. Too many established lines that I can't climb already....heh..heh...
But yes, local traditions should be respected in all cases. Consult with the locals and gain their acceptance.
I don't care who you're sponsored by.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Sep 27, 2012 - 03:55pm PT
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yes we should.
In 30 years I don't want to have to skip bolts just so I climb Czech sandstone like it was done back in the day.
what does the right balance look like?
what existing examples are there to model after?
does the division become territorial (this side is abseil, this side is GU)
or by committee, keeping a Zoo-like preservation area of traditional ethics, while the rest is abseil?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Sep 27, 2012 - 04:03pm PT
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I'm not sure it's possible for future climbers to have the same resources we have, if only because the quantity of unknown rock diminishes over time. Pushing a new route when you don't know if it goes -- particularly if the protection is also unknown -- requires a different skill set from climbing on a known route.
While I doubt that I've made even 1/100 of the first ascents Jim has made, I've done enough FA's to know the fear of leading in the face of uncertain difficulty, rock quality and protection. The ability of future generations to experience that challenge is something that I doubt we can preserve.
As for rap-bolted routes in areas where that is outside the mainstream, there's always the Dawn Wall "erasure" treatment.
John
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10b4me
Ice climber
dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel
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Sep 27, 2012 - 04:09pm PT
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so what NF sponsored climbers have been in there lately?
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Sep 27, 2012 - 04:24pm PT
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Hard time making that happen here, why bother internationally?
Oh wait, some trustfunders are vested in say Patagonia, so the rest of the climbing world should care?
Pfft.
Rap bolt it all.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Sep 27, 2012 - 04:35pm PT
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As the planet shrinks we must celebrate those who climb clean.
Do great things, leave no trace.
How bad do we need a V8 boulder problem on the side of El Cap? ...or anywhere?
If the local ethic is to rap bolt clean crack, that ethic is still idiotic, no matter what location.
Cat Spray: The stink of uncastrated felines.
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MH2
climber
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Sep 27, 2012 - 04:46pm PT
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With modern transportation and the Internet, more and more climbers are road tripping,
Not to mention corporate sponsorship. Which you did.
You are teetering on the existential edge, Jim Donini. A sure sign of aging.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 27, 2012 - 05:13pm PT
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MH2 do you know about my corporate sponsorship? I've had very little. I've gotten a fair amount of free gear and I've parlayed some climbs into articles for which I have been paid but I've never been on an all expenses paid expedition like the ones the North Face sponsors. I've had to work for my adventure.
Most importantly, I've never taken a power drill to Patagonia and put in bolts next to cracks. I've done quite a few new routes, some pretty long, in mountain ranges around the World. The sum total of bolts I have placed on those routes is 4, all hand drilled. The last time I even brought any bolts on a first ascent was 1976- you can't use what you don't have.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Sep 27, 2012 - 05:14pm PT
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Yuri Kruglov reports from the Crimea that a visiting American North Face Team violated strongly held local traditions in establishing a new route on 300 meters high Morcheka, one of their premier traditional crags.
That's maybe part of the problem. There's no names, the climbers in question are a visiting "North Face team."
Most likely the exact same climbers, as individuals, are great people, and as individuals would take time to learn, respect and go with local ethics. Why visit a new place otherwise?
Sometimes sponsorship (free flights? Free gear?) can create a sense of obligation to perform. To do stuff that will look good in the blog the sponsors provide.
Most climbers choose climbing in the first place because it does not have the strict rules and teams and all the formality that goes with golf, or tennis or athletics. So we're not always well equipped to deal with the stress that can come from being given free stuff by reps with big smiles and bigger pockets.
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Chef Wade
Trad climber
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Sep 27, 2012 - 05:22pm PT
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At least it wasn't Redbull again. Theres some pretty well known climbers on that TNF trip, it would be a shame to hear thats who is pissing off the locals.
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fsck
climber
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Sep 27, 2012 - 05:28pm PT
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they should call the route Crimea River
i'll just see my way out....
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Woody the Beaver
Trad climber
Soldier, Idaho
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Sep 27, 2012 - 05:41pm PT
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WWCD? I remember reading, a few years ago, about a grotesquely mechanized and expensive sponsored trip to spectacular new routes in Antarctica. I remember feeling kind of sad that a beautiful chance was lost to us all; the chance that those routes and peaks might, left alone for a bit, have been approached in the graceful and thoughtful way that Charlie Porter might have taken. So I ask myself, when it comes to many action choices, "What would Charlie do?" WWCD? Gosh, I'm such a romantic.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sep 27, 2012 - 05:52pm PT
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I have a huge rack of big bashies and wooden wedges! I'm ready to do new routes!
Planning some FAs in Spain Jeremy?
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Sep 27, 2012 - 05:54pm PT
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Sick!
Love those guys!!!
They crush everything from EVEREST to Pebbles.
JEREMY
I am bringin the Hydrabeer, you get your chizzles sharpened.
Oh, and bring yer mom, cuz I heard she is good with the WOOD.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sep 27, 2012 - 06:02pm PT
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Hi, my name's Tad Stoneworth, and I just got a fully sponsored trip to Crimpistan.
We'll be sure to get a lot of use out of our fully stocked Bosch kit, and we'll be rapping with the hottest new gear.
Please make sure to check out our blog with all our sick FIRSTS!!
I'd like you to meet my partner Rip Shreddington.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Sep 27, 2012 - 06:06pm PT
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Dude,
I send on the suds.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sep 27, 2012 - 06:09pm PT
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Meet your team.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Sep 27, 2012 - 06:23pm PT
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i am 100% with Donini on this..
yup i've been sponsored over the years..
yup i have drilled many many bolts, by hand, by drill ground up and some top down.
yup i have been busted by the rangers for drilling, on lead on el cap. we never added a single new bolt to the Muir wall, we replaced anchors and added few bolts on variations..
when i go to a new area i respect the traditions of that area..
this is a trend now, these modern sponsored climbers need to keep doing these climbs and promote them to get paid and live the life they want. nothing wrong with that except when it impacts the local environment or ethics of that area..
so it will be interesting to find out who these cats were and what the logic was behind the ascent.
KS
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