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cfrac
Trad climber
Gardiner,NY
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 21, 2012 - 10:52pm PT
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I am writing a history of Millbrook in the Gunks which does not contain a single bolt. I am curious as to what other cliffs across the U.S. do not contain any bolts. I am looking for major cliffs that have 100+ established routes, not backyard crags.
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jeff_m
Social climber
700' up
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Sep 21, 2012 - 11:39pm PT
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Excluding rap anchors, too?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 22, 2012 - 12:36am PT
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Like the PForks in the old days........
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Sep 22, 2012 - 12:41am PT
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Does it have a fixed piton? Fixed slings on natural anchors?
People get a bit over-fixated on bolts...sometimes we forget that fixed anchors are not just bolts.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Sep 22, 2012 - 12:49am PT
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People get a bit over-fixated on bolts...sometimes we forget that fixed anchors are not just bolts.
No sh#t. I've been waiting several decades for someone to explain to me how climbing a crack with bomber protection above your head whenever you feel you need it is somehow more worthy of respect than clipping runout bolts.
Oh. Sorry. Bolts are evil and I shouldn't have said anything. I'll go sit in the car.
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cfrac
Trad climber
Gardiner,NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2012 - 01:37am PT
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I am not standing in judgement of placing bolts or trying to start a debate, I am just trying to find out if there are other cliffs out there without any bolts.
jeff_m yes, excluding rap anchors
GregBarnes yes it has one fixed rap station on a tree and there are a handful of pins leftover from the aid routes and a few from Weissner's early forays. There are also a few rusting nuts and fixed cams.
TheWarbler Millbrook is divided across Open Space Institute property, the Mohonk Preserve, Minnewaska State Park, and some Private Land.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Sep 22, 2012 - 01:50am PT
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Dexter Canyon, on the East Side, until that guy Bachar came along.Where he climbed, I would have placed them too. It depends on the terrain. Have fun with this one.
Ken
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 22, 2012 - 02:16am PT
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Sep 22, 2012 - 02:23am PT
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"...I am just trying to find out if there are other cliffs out there without any bolts."
No offense, but why would anyone with such a treasure want to to divulge it on the internetz?
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cfrac
Trad climber
Gardiner,NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2012 - 02:28am PT
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"...I am just trying to find out if there are other cliffs out there without any bolts."
No offense, but why would anyone with such a treasure want to to divulge it on the internetz?
To protect itz.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Sep 22, 2012 - 02:28am PT
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Good luck with that.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Sep 22, 2012 - 02:37am PT
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given the history of north american climbing, i wouldn't expect to find many other examples. and my guess is that the ones you can find are either super obscure or will date most of their development from after the clean climbing revolution. (or else will be shorter, vertically jointed cliffs with regular vertical cracks-- like jaybro's example bitd.)
north americans seem to have been the leaders of expansion bolting. but it appears to have begun on the west coast (rcs, salathe, etc.) partly as a response to the available rock in yosemite, with discontinuous cracks punctuated by steep slabs.
the gunks was not an obvious place for bolting. short cliffs, lots of horizontal and pin-friendly cracks, drill-resistant rock, and average angles too steep to allow most leaders to free two hands for drilling. plus it was on the other end of the continent from the bolting pioneers.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Sep 22, 2012 - 03:01am PT
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Chris is focusing on bolts, but I don't think there is a crag in country with a similar number (and difficulty) of routes that has anywhere near as little fixed gear. Something like one set of slings on a tree, maybe five old pitons, and no bolts, rap or otherwise, for around 100+ mostly two-pitch routes.
(Actually, no bolts is no longer strictly true. The Preserve has recently placed some bolts in some rocks at the top, behind the main face, to serve as anchors for a potential raising rescue or recovery.)
By the way Ghost, not to argue one way or the other about bolt "ethics," but the routes at MB do not follow continuous cracks and are almost entirely lacking in anything like overhead protection. I can assure you that you'll be fully aware that you are leading above, not underneath, your gear on most of the routes there.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Sep 22, 2012 - 10:55am PT
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Ho hum...back to the actual topic.
I think it would be interesting to extend the search to the U.K. Of course, they have gritstone, which is 100% bolt-free, do they also have crags in the 200' foot range that have fixed gear (pins or bolts) at or better than the MB ratio of approximately one fixed piece for every twenty climbs?
A post to ukclimbing might be interesting...
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Sep 22, 2012 - 11:30am PT
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Check Moolack in Oregon. @80+ routes and no bolts yet. Lots of trees on top for rap points. It's the ethic that the first folks started and is still going. The place just hit the guidebook, and the intro has the no bolt cautionary tale, so lets hope for the best. This may be a "backyard crag" though, and outside of the scope of the question.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 22, 2012 - 12:08pm PT
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Pretty sure there aren't any on this 'un...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 22, 2012 - 12:13pm PT
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um Kludge, I don't think it was a value statement, the OP just wondered about crags W/O bolts.
Did you just get trolled?
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Sep 22, 2012 - 02:13pm PT
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Wild Rose.... a tiny crag just below South Lake in Bishop Creek drainage, 4 good cracks, all done by Big Al Bartlett back in the 70's.
The rap is from a small pile of stones.... very nice- fun filled.
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fsck
climber
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Sep 22, 2012 - 02:24pm PT
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there's a small crag in the uintas called The Recess (discovered by johnny woodward, i think) that has no bolts, for protection or rapping. definitely less than a hundred routes there but i think general consensus is for it to remain bolt-free. the original, hand-drawn topo i had for this place had all the ratings as british e-grades, lol.
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