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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 19, 2012 - 09:10pm PT
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I was reading this and wondered if it is still accurate. I think so . . .
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"Since as far back as the mid-1970s, the rarest thing in the entire climbing world is the true 5.11 trad leader. This sounds almost laughable. After all, 5.11 is only borderline expert terrain nowadays. But in fact, there are very few climbers who can go to Yosemite and on-sight lead Twilight Zone (run out off-size crack), Tightrope (run out slab), Edge of Night (difficult flare) Center Route on Independence Pinnacle (thin hands), Final Exam (fist crack), Spooky Tooth (steep and scary face), 1096 (squeeze chimney), and Waverly Wafer (wide to lyback) – and none of these routes are harder than 5.10. Believe it: The climber who has mastered all of those techniques at the 5.11 level is exceptional, and those climbing wide to thin to face, all at the 5.12 standard, number very few in any country."
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James
climber
My twin brother's laundry room
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Aug 19, 2012 - 09:14pm PT
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For sure- it's always funny to hear someone proclaim they're 5.12 CLIMBER when they've just ticked off a few steep sport routes.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Aug 19, 2012 - 09:15pm PT
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I believe that's true. Being really solid at any grade implies mastering all climbing techniques and skills at that grade and that's probably fairly rare at 5.11.
Curt
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Aug 19, 2012 - 09:18pm PT
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true
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 19, 2012 - 09:20pm PT
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The climber who has mastered all of those techniques at the 5.11 level is exceptional
I have one or two candidates at this level... though I'm not sure if they are that broad...
at the 5.12 standard... very few
I don't have any candidates at this level...
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David Wilson
climber
CA
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Aug 19, 2012 - 09:21pm PT
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that is so true -
wait, did you just create a new valley hardman list ?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 19, 2012 - 09:52pm PT
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Seems right to me. Those who can do it all at 5.11 are not common. Not at all unheard of for sure. But that is a VERY solid climbing all around level.
Take out offwidth and slab and I'd say waaay more common. Throw in pulling on a peice here and there.. lotsa folks then.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Aug 19, 2012 - 09:53pm PT
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Seems like folks are getting on stuff like VMC Direct Direct pretty much every weekend.
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Aug 19, 2012 - 09:55pm PT
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That's an impressive list for sure but it's Valley centric. I've always held the belief that you had to be solid in the grade on any type rock/at any location to make claims.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Aug 19, 2012 - 10:13pm PT
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Funny stuff... I just did a new 5.11+ pocket climb (bolted) in the San Luis Valley...the kid with me cruise it...not so on the 5.10+ hand and fist crack that we did that day to. Hung like a monkey the whole way up.
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bullfrog
Trad climber
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Aug 19, 2012 - 10:23pm PT
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It's funny but true. Look at grade inflation, the need to sell magazines and the need to keep sponsorships. 5.11 has "fallen" to even being called "moderate".
The YDS system, being a consensus grade actually works remarkably well for what it is needed for at a base level: giving a climber a yardstick to determine whether or not a route should be attempted in the first place and how much effort they should expect to put into it.
It is similar to chess ratings, in that you are comparing what you can do to what others have done. The difference being in chess the players are ranked while in climbing the climbs are ranked. If I get to choose who I play in chess or what types of climbs I do, my view of my ability in both ranking systems can get distorted.
Fortunately for climbing, I'm more interested in what a route was rated and by whom, and in what year, to determine how I might want to approach it.
Went a bit off topic there but yeah, 5.11 across the board is pretty f'n solid.
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sethsquatch76
Trad climber
Joshua tree ca
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Aug 19, 2012 - 10:44pm PT
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Dan the Morman. Solid.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Aug 19, 2012 - 11:07pm PT
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OP = True.
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Roadie
Trad climber
Bishop, Ca
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Aug 19, 2012 - 11:25pm PT
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So far no one has mentioned the difference between doing 5.whatever fifty feet off the ground and the same difficulty, pitch after pitch, a thousand feet off the ground. In my mind that is where the true challenges and rewards come into play. The beauty of climbing, not only for me but many I hope, is the mental and emotional discipline as much as the physical.
Also, there is a broad range of difficulty between 5.11a and d, obviously...
It’s a question that comes up every few years and its good to keep people in check. Thanks John.
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maui_mark
climber
under a coconut tree
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Aug 19, 2012 - 11:47pm PT
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Roadie??
Steve ? That you?
I use to know someone who loved to spray about " I climb 5.12" when they were in Indian Creek. Yet they stayed far away from the 5.10 wide hands and OW's.
I told them if their a 5.12 climber that they should be able to OS Astroman.....
Funny thing is when I was in the creek 11+/12- was a reasonable grade I could climb TR/Lead. I went to J-tree and all of the sudden 5.9 was f*#k'n terrifying and goddam scary. I followed Coarse and Buggy and I was like holy schincterballs.....
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ruppell
climber
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Aug 20, 2012 - 12:54am PT
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True for sure. The guy that mentored me installed something in me that I use to this day. I asked him when you can call yourself a climber of a given grade. He didn't hesitate one second. His response was "When you can onsight 99% of the climbs at that grade regardless of style." It stuck with me and I'll probably never be more than a 5.10 climber because of it. I've climbed harder for sure but 5.10 is the grade that I can onsight most of the time. Slab, crack, steep, thin, scary(the ones you have to onsight), bolted, whatever. Although I did just fall off a 10+ at Patricia Bowl the other day so maybe I'm a 5.9 climber. Oh well back to the drawing board.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 20, 2012 - 01:25am PT
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Wasn't it JB who sometimes described himself as a 5.9, maybe a 5.10 climber? That is, that he was reasonably sure of climbing routes of all kinds of that grade anywhere, anytime.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Aug 20, 2012 - 01:29am PT
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The first time I really understood this subject was one summer about 30 years ago when a friend got a geology job that gave him access to a boat that let us cross a lake to some nice terrain that was easily seen, but hard to get to in the summer.
Got the chance to do the second or third (never really knew which) of a pretty north ridge on a peak that rose out of the far end of the lake. It was supposedly 5.8, and I thought of myself as a 5.10 climber, because I'd managed to lead a bunch of 5.10 pitches at Squamish. So no problem, right?
Well, no problem on the first four pitches, but the fifth (and final) pitch featured a crack wider than my hands and wider than any of the primitive pro we'd brought along (Hey, it's only 5.8, how much gear could we really need?).
And the crack was iced up.
It was my introduction to what climbing is really about, and although I've since climbed plenty of things that are rated harder, I'm still pretty proud to be a 5.8 climber.
So, yeah, before you call yourself or someone else "a 5.X climber" it's worth considering just what you mean.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 20, 2012 - 01:34am PT
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It was iced up when we did it, too - but that was in April. Glad that Len was there to lead.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Aug 20, 2012 - 01:45am PT
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Understand the sentiment. Should point out that Tightrope is rated 5.11c though the runout section that everyone is referring to is rated 5.10b. BTW, if you blow it on the 5.8+ friction at the top of pitch two you can potentially take a 300-foot groundfall.
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