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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 30, 2012 - 10:30pm PT
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I'm pissed....was watching the Olympic Track and Field Trials and they broke away to country club clone Michael Phelps winning a butterfly race. Can you tell the swimmers and gymnasts apart from each other? A track and Field medal is truly an accomplishment. The sport is egalitarian and is practiced in all countries and by all ethnic and socio economic groups. Too many olympic sports are not available to the masses and they are precisely the ones that get the most press in this country.
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chill
climber
between the flat part and the blue wobbly thing
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Jun 30, 2012 - 11:07pm PT
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You some kind of commie, Jim?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Jun 30, 2012 - 11:13pm PT
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You race him, then. Or shut up.
Straight up.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 30, 2012 - 11:17pm PT
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I used to get pissed when they would break away from the winter biathlon,Skeet/trap or equestrian events.
All depends on what you have some familiarity with
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Jun 30, 2012 - 11:19pm PT
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dressage! not that there's a lot of underprivileged/minority climbers
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Jun 30, 2012 - 11:21pm PT
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That's why the world loves soccer, or football if one must wax foreign.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 30, 2012 - 11:26pm PT
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ALL the sports federation organizing bodies are political to the core.
It's all about who sponsors you,. how much money you bring to the table and how connected you are be it Dressage, Olympic trap or pole vaulting.
The more expensive the accoutrements and training cost, the worse it gets.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 30, 2012 - 11:27pm PT
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Oh, yes....they're just like us....
Edit: If it was Michelle Obama that had a dressage horse, you Repugs would crucify her for it.
Back in 2000, one of the 'virtues' that Repugs held up about Shrub was that he was 'one of us'...someone you could sit down a drink a beer with...
Obviously, that was complete and utter bullsh#t...but all of the backwater Cletus Repugs took it line & sinker.
So here we are, 12 years later....'one of us'? 'Drink a beer with him'?
What dumbass rationale are you gonna use this time that'll appeal to the backwater Cletus's that are your base?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 30, 2012 - 11:32pm PT
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You can buy a horse, train it (improve it) and sell it and expense out the costs just like any other piece of property.
The same tax rules apply as for any other asset.
Been there, done that, just at a few less significant digits.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jun 30, 2012 - 11:33pm PT
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Can you tell the swimmers and gymnasts apart from each other? A track and Field medal is truly an accomplishment.
Serious gymnastics is badass. I don't know if you've got to be a rich country club clone to get into it, but as far as I can tell it's as scary as highball bouldering.
Swimming, on the other hand...
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yosguns
climber
Durham, NC
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Jun 30, 2012 - 11:33pm PT
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My understanding was that hunter jumper was a better indication of wealth than dressage. Maybe that's just a Northeast thing?
You should limit your universe to figure out which sports are egalitarian.
In the States, do you really have to be wealthy to be a gymnast?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 30, 2012 - 11:44pm PT
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You are correct on the Hunter thing. Jumpers tend to be more hard core and party animals. Kinda like the difference between sport and trad.
BITD my wife did clean the clocks of a few noted Hollywood celeb type offspring with her $1,500 ex race horse versus their $50K steeds so it doesn't all come down to dollars at the end.
When it does come down to dollars is who gets sponsored by the particular sporting federation.
That seems to be the case across all the events.
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chill
climber
between the flat part and the blue wobbly thing
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Jun 30, 2012 - 11:53pm PT
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You race him, then. Or shut up.
Straight up. Easy there Skully, it was a joke. I don't really trot around in a little gay getup.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Struggling back to Donini’s original post and the purpose of his thread, I share his dismay. His point is that the Olympics were originally re-established (1896) in the most democratic of spirits and that spirit of the original, ancient games, and as J-Do says, they should be involving on an equal basis, young people of all nations, for the duration and yet we see more and more, the specialization in sports only affordable by the few, all in the purpose to win.
Speaking as a past professional equestrian,and using this as the one example I really know much about, in the case of Jumper and Dressage, almost completely, the field is dominated by factors with nearly limitless disposable income for the pursuit. The financial power of most participants’ backers is astounding and has nothing to do with the original Olympic ideal. The actual rider is almost never the original trainer, owner and promoter of the horse he or she rides--- there is a bunch of financial backing in there making the whole task possible.
Keeping these horses in training requires something (everything considered) more than $100,000 annually and to begin with the animals, mature savy and incredibly experienced, just aren’t for sale at their prime, usually. And if they are, it is only a freak chance and they are somewhere between $500,000 and $3,000,000 each. All that for a brief few years during which they are at their best and still sound....And campaigning them--that is, carting them around the globe on the FEI circuit----costs far far more and is nearly always at a dead loss. After the IRS rules for deductions in such partnerships and syndicates changed back about 35 years ago or so, it became even more onerous to campaign a horse of any sort at the international level.
So J-Do is right in his reverie here that the original ideals and amateurism have been frogleaped for something very very different, professionalism, power of any sort, really. And I for one share his dismay over the situation.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Dunno, but in terms of horse ownership and competition it seems unlikely to me the common man has ever had much of a role. Aside from rodeo at least. If you own a horse and have time to train it to jump or do fancy footwork you are not part of the teeming masses.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Jim, your annoyance (is that a word?) seemed to have been triggered by the cut to Michael Phelps. I don't think it has anything to do with class.
Ever since NBC started covering the Olympics there has been a big shift to the whole cult of personality "up close and personal" focus of coverage. The network seems to think that the athleticism will not be enough for the average American viewer. Maybe they are right?
Michael Phelps is a household name in the US because of his past performance and medals. He has more name recognition than almost any other athlete in this Olympics. The coverage of any event seems to me to be in direct proportion to whatever heartwarming or hero story they can spin about a particular athlete.
Phyl
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yosguns
climber
Durham, NC
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Wow, Peter, I had no idea about your cred. :) That's really cool.
The numbers you quote are pretty astounding. Nevertheless, I'm not sure that should be an automatic disqualifier for the Olympics. It looks like equestrian events debuted in 1900. Besides (it's hard for me to communicate this thought), if we assume that riders--swimmers, gymnasts, whatever--are at a socioeconomic advantage and that's why they started riding--swimming, gyming--in the first place, should their status really disqualify them from the games? I mean, wouldn't that be the same as disqualifying soccer and track and field because they don't require a large financial backing? Is the inherent quality of the endeavor less somehow? I'm probably just missing the point.
EDIT: But also, I did get a little annoyed when I saw the Michael Phelps Subway commercial. I know he has the most medals ever, but...really? His mom hands him Subway sandwiches when he's training? Really?
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Anastasia
climber
InLOVEwithAris.
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Olympic equality??? Just the fact that the U.S. gets to host the damn thing so much when other countries are regularly ignored. It's obviously not based on "equality."
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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ON the Edge, there are tons of exceptions in equestrian history, of "the little horse that could" but yeah, on the face of it, it would seem to be a rich man's sport and usually has been. Sure is now! By factors of many many more!
Basically Donini's cry here is about the loss of amateurism back in the seventies and now what it means today, what we get for bringing in the pro's.
Now back to horses:
Only in the last thirty years has it got this extreme, where wealth and power trump most all newcomers. This is a professional not amateur field of competition now. Even nationally. And so in a sense, current activity defies the best interests of horsemanship worldwide and its history as well.
I would also say that the judging in the last two decades has been more and more questionable. Famous powerfully positioned riders getting awarded higher points than appropriate for mediocre, flat, unenlightened piaffes, pirouettes, and passages. The Iberian, Portugese and Spanish Riding Schools are "apart" from the Olympics and not participating because their horsemanship is closer to the original baroque ideal, is ridden on a lighter shorter horse to some degree, and allows a great deal more participation of the individual equine. Current international dressage is dominated by the warmblood, a crossbreed of draft and the hot lines of thoroughbred and arab. Important countries breeding these horses are: Sweden, Holland, Belgium, Germany, France, Austria. These are really large horses generally very obedient animals on the average and ride very differently than Andalusians, Lippizzaners, Lusitanos, Arabs. So the current power elite in international dressage is actually a newer development of the last half century, and on its heels, came of course, the need for even greater gobs of money. And it it is distinctly North European.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Peter- I'll take your word on the matter- please give us some of your favorites to cheer on during the upcoming games!
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