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JohnJ80302
Trad climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 23, 2012 - 11:54am PT
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Anybody have an idea who made this carabiner stamped with a J? I bought it along with an old Chouinard, a Bedayn, and a steel locking Stubai, so it may be from that era (pre-1968). Thanks for any info you may have!
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covelocos
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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Jun 23, 2012 - 12:00pm PT
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It's an 'oval'
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jun 23, 2012 - 12:26pm PT
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Looks like John's SMC biner..
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Dick Erb
climber
June Lake, CA
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Jun 23, 2012 - 12:36pm PT
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If there is no manufacturers stamp on it then it is an Army biner. Back in the fifties we could buy those for a dollar apiece in the surplus stores.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jun 23, 2012 - 12:41pm PT
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Dick- Do you recall hearing about those army biners failing under fall loads very often? They had a reputation for being unreliable and I have always been curious if this bias was based on actual failures during use.
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JohnJ80302
Trad climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2012 - 02:47pm PT
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Thanks for the info. No, there is no manufacturers stamp on it, or strength rating. I guess the J could be the owner's stamp, but it is fairly deep and looks too good to me to be a hammered stamp done after purchase. Army surplus eh? Interesting.
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
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Jun 24, 2012 - 12:50am PT
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I'm fairly sure that it's NOT an army biner. The length-to-width ratios of my army biners are different from this one. This one looks more like a "standard" oval like SMC, Bedayan, or one with a similar ratio of length to width. Like The Warbler said, it would work with a brake-bar.
I never heard about failures of army biners, but I never trusted them for much more than racking pins. Their wider widths meant they could often take another pin where a "standard" oval could not.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Jun 24, 2012 - 02:12am PT
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What is interesting to me about the carabiner is the area where the gate hinges. In almost all the production carabiners of this design that I have seen(SMC, Eiger, etc,) both the body of the carabiner and the gate are square at the bottom where they hinge.
If you look closely at this carabiner you can see that the gate is curved and the body of the carabiner has a matching 'scallop' which allows the gate to 'hinge' cleanly.
Don't know if that helps identify the carabiner, but I thought that particular observation of the manufacturing was interesting.
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Jun 24, 2012 - 08:34am PT
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To add to the chorus, it's not a military biner per my time in the Army. Even by 76 the Army still used steel ovals.
that is all, carry on.
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Dick Erb
climber
June Lake, CA
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Jun 24, 2012 - 10:58am PT
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BooDawg, you are right about the length to width ratio. I also never saw an Army biner this narrow, but every other oval I've seen had a brand on the gate,ie. first Bedayn then later Eiger, SMC, and some others. The Army biners could be found in both steel and aluminum, and I was a little suspect of their strength. Even the Bedayns, the most common at the time only held a little over 2,000 pounds. I did hear of one accident at Hunter's Hill where the leader pulled off a large block and was holding it as he fell, breaking some carabiners. I never heard what brand.
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JohnJ80302
Trad climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 24, 2012 - 04:31pm PT
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Bhilden, Warbler and BooDawg, I think you may be onto something there. I learned from Peter Webb on Mountainproject.com that early Bedayn Duraluminum ovals were unmarked, had rounded edges, a notched gate, and could be used with brake bars. He posted a photo of his 1965-66 Holubar catalog (below), and this seems very close to what I have here.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Jun 24, 2012 - 04:42pm PT
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Possible factory prototype that leaked out into use? Or perhaps some one who made them pulled a few for himself before the final finishing stamp. Either way, it's worth millions $$$.
I'll gove you $10.00 for it.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 14, 2012 - 01:33pm PT
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The gate finishing details are the key for comparison.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jul 14, 2012 - 06:19pm PT
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OK. I want to share my mystery unmarked biner too. It has no markings, but appears distinctly different from the first mystery biner in this thread.
Here's a closer view of just the mystery biner and the Bedayn California biner.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 14, 2012 - 09:44pm PT
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Started climbing in the 60's.....God am I glad biner technology has evolved so much! I have to say, I have absolutely no nostalgia for old gear.
Well....really old gear can be interesting.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jul 15, 2012 - 12:31am PT
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Steve: Re your post!
Fritz- Your biner is likely an unmarked Gendarme carabiner thanks to a photo that Clint posted here.
I must agree, since the rounded hinge-side of the gate on the mystery biner so closely matches the Gendarme carabiner, and does not match any other old carabiner I know.
So----Gendarme carabiners is a new world for me?? Anyone out there with more information on who made them?
The one I have, came out of a late 60's rack from Colorado.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 15, 2012 - 04:21am PT
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Seneca Rock connection via The Gendarme shop.
Read what Stephane has to say on the link above.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 17, 2012 - 12:53am PT
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Great link to an authoritative source!
I sure learned a few things about parallel evolution.
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