Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
JoJo229
climber
west
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 5, 2012 - 02:33am PT
|
Just because one person climbs a piece of a rock and puts bad protection doesn't mean everyone for all of eternity has to climb that piece of rock the same way.
So a guy climbs a route, puts bolt #1 ten feet up and bolt #2 30 feet up, nobody is then allowed to climb right there safely forever!?
go ahead and retro bolt. if anyone doesn't like that, just don't clip the bolt.
|
|
JoJo229
climber
west
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2012 - 02:59am PT
|
figured that would be the first response... just trying to spread logic
|
|
JoJo229
climber
west
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2012 - 03:12am PT
|
an "ethical" system that creates dangerous situations because it predicates that a private individual can forever make a public place dangerous is oxymoronic and illogical
|
|
ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
|
|
Just buy a long enough static line, and toprope it, you stupid american pussy.
|
|
mcreel
climber
Barcelona
|
|
Could we get some opinions on the safe way to take bath salts?
|
|
rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
|
|
"an "ethical" system that creates dangerous situations because it predicates that a private individual can forever make a public place dangerous is oxymoronic and illogical"
I would like to translate the above statement properly:
JoJo is a pussy...
|
|
the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
|
|
who the hell is JOJO229 anyway?
where did you come up with this logic?
was that the time you backed off one of the many routes that you have no business being on? climbing is more than clipping bolts like you were in the gym.
once upon a time, when those routes you are talking about were done, there was this thing in climbing called:
integrity, respect, ethics and the minimalist approach to climbing. Royal Robbins preached this, JB preached this as did many many other. Also need to under stand that when these routes were done, sticky rubber was not around or the shoes were not that good, you drilled from the stance that you could drill from, and if you could not drill you either down climbed or went for it.
so in conclusion, if you can't or won't go for it, then stay in the gym.
kurt
|
|
steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
|
|
p.s. Thanks for the free hangars JoJo.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
It's JUST rock climbing. I have always had a problem when 5.12 climbers put up a 5.9 R/X route ( not R/X for them) and then for some strange reason want it to stay that way so that it prohibits the very 5.9 climbers the rating is appropriate for.
There are no absolutes; sometimes retro bolting is both appropriate and justified.
First ascenionists don't own a route, the local tradition should be more of a litmus test than a single party.
Some routes (Bachar/Yerian et al) should be left for the hardmen, others, perhaps established by hardmen but not hard, should be available for weekend warriors.
|
|
couchmaster
climber
pdx
|
|
It is just rock climbing. True, it may be justified, but to add to what Jim says: it is tradition to ask the first ascentionists if adding a bolt or whatever, is OK with them. Usually the reply is "hell yeah go for it, we ran out of bolts in the first pitch and then had to go for it. Moved to XXXX and never got around to making it the way we had wanted too". If you get a "there's nothing wrong with it the way it is, then the tradition is to leave it alone.
The alternative tradition is community consensus. This involves much more than asking a few bros over beers.
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
|
|
my favorite kind of troll!!
oh, and btw, you're right if you get consent.
you're wrong otherwise. you don't have to climb every piece of rock. But if you want, just start top roping. We need more acceptance of top roping.
|
|
Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
|
|
I agree with Donini somewhat about some screwy routes......ask the FA party, and ask the local climbers. Remember, climbing routes are put up by people, and some people are boneheads out to get themselves and others killed or mamed.....some FAs are put up by drunks, kooks, twisted ego maniacs that have a chip on their shoulders and something twisted to prove the thier ex-girl friends, their abusive parents, their boss at work, or Rock and Ice magazine.....things are done in poor stay for poor reasons. Mistakes are made on first ascents, people run out of gear, bolts, pitons, time;...whatever............Bolts are put in the wrong spots, even in the minds of the FA party, but then the FA party doesn't go back and fix their mistakes. If a route is botched by the FA party, and then someone wants to fix it and has the FA partie's blessings...I say fix it up the way it was intended to be. Why leave a mistake or a screwup, when it needs to be fixed. Just because it was climbed poorly once, shouldn't mean that it has be be poorly climbed forever. But, if the FA party wants to leave their poorly done climb as is.....and they really feel strongly about it.....let them have their way for now.......after they are dead and gone and 30 years from now;...who knows what the climbing community will feel about such "controversies".....
|
|
surfstar
climber
Santa Barbara, CA
|
|
figured that would be the first response... just trying to spread logic
Your logic already failed - there's nothing logical about climbing.
|
|
Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
|
|
go ahead and retro bolt. if anyone doesn't like that, just don't clip the bolt
Better yet- go to the sack store and buy a pair. If you don't like that, don't climb the route...
|
|
apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
|
|
"who the hell is JOJO229 anyway?"
|
|
rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
|
|
...nobody is then allowed to climb right there safely forever!?
Nobody ever climbs safely. Watching from a distance might be considered safe.
Staying home on the couch can be safe but rock climbing is not safe ever. That's why we, but probably not you, like it.
Dave
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
you can always tell a troll by the use of the exclamation mark in the title.
worth discussing anyway. donini puts it well. really, really hard climbers seem to lose perspective when they put up easier routes.
|
|
MBrown
Big Wall climber
The Eastside.... UUUUHHHHHHH!
|
|
screw bolts, all you need is a blue camalot...
|
|
the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
|
|
i think Donini misses the point when it comes to routes put up before rap bolting,hang dogging and gym climbing...
for me it was all about carry on the ethic of the area and time, and also being able to stop and place bolts when i could and being able to have enough bolts to put up a line.
I agree that some bolts do get put in bad places and i have gone back and moved bolts accordingly.
But to blanket say 5.12 climbers are bolts scary 5.9 routes for fun or ego misses the mark. remember in the old days you did not pre inspect the route, hence the reason it's called on sight and you won't know how hard it is until it's done..
|
|
Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
|
|
Yes, I recognize this is a troll. However!!!
Whether we want to believe it or not, I do believe the opinion expressed in the OP is the future of our sport. Trad climbing will be a climbing style choice in the not so far future, similar to soloing or high balling a TR.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!