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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 25, 2011 - 04:20pm PT
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I guess I'm just a big weenie, but rattlesnakes really make me nervous. Not totally terrified...just uncomfortable being around them. So...my question is...is there any time of the year that I can either avoid or really minimize my possible contact with the buzzworms? Zip unexpectedly encountered 3 of them up on the belay ledge at Short Wall, and I was ready to bail. Granted, they didn't seem real aggressive and stayed back in cracks, but I was not pleased to see them.
I'm thinking about a jaunt to Josh the week before Thanksgiving, and am hoping that they will be getting underground for the colder weather. Is this a fantasy on my part?
I recall several years ago simply turning on my heel and going back to the car after a close encounter of the bad kind on my way over to Heart and Sole from the Echo Rock parking lot. I had tried 2-3 different trails through the sagebrush or whateverthefuk the bushes were, and each time encountering a buzzworm.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Oct 25, 2011 - 04:25pm PT
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Cold winter days.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
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Oct 25, 2011 - 04:27pm PT
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Pretty bad luck on your part. I have been climbing extensively at Josh since 1973 and never seen a rattler there. Seen garter snakes and gopher snakes but no rattlers. Even saw a mountain lion and a deer, but no rattlers. Of course I stay away when it is warm.
Now the southern sierra is a whole different deal!
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Oct 25, 2011 - 04:28pm PT
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i distinctly remember you saying those were gopher snakes, and you telling me that i should man up, and finish the route.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 25, 2011 - 04:28pm PT
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Are there more rattlesnakes in the vicinity of Barker Dam, and in washes generally? More food, etc?
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coastal_climber
Trad climber
British Columbia
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Oct 25, 2011 - 04:44pm PT
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Your gonna miss out on a ton of climbing if your worried about them like that. Just take he usual precautions... Plus, you have a reasonable amount of time to get to a hospital before you are f*#ked.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Oct 25, 2011 - 04:46pm PT
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i like rattlesnakes and have had them around for pets
biologists have been learning a lot more about them; and i have learned a little bit from those studies
rattlesnakes do their very best to avoid people; we are dangerous to them and not suitable prey
the young ones are more naive and hence more dangerous
for every rattlesnake that you see there were many more that you never saw; and the ones you saw were probably pretty embarrassed that you saw them
they like to hide under rocks and wait for a rodent to scurry by
when a great big foot arrives in front of their hiding place it messes up their hunt, at least for while; but only a naive young one will strike
biologists making studies of them have watched people accidentally step on rattlesnakes while the snakes managed to continue pretending to not be there
in spring and fall they tend to be concentrated in an area near to where they get together to hibernate
the rest of the year they scatter widely and each needs a fairly large area to hunt
when you walk into a nest concentration it is hard for them all to hide
three times in my life i have walked through a dense concentration of rattlesnakes; once at the base of El Cap Tree route, once in Idaho along the Snake River bluffs, and once near some climbing rocks in Nevada
each time, by walking slowly and politely through the area; there was some fuss, but no injuries
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Oct 25, 2011 - 04:51pm PT
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This may be a dumb question but do they rattle before biting prey. I am assuming they do not.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Oct 25, 2011 - 04:51pm PT
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Three in the same space at the same time is very rare.
I've come across a bunch of babies but never more than one adult at a time.
I doubt you'll see any around Thanksgiving. I never have.
Paying attention to where you are walking and placing your feet really helps avoid these animals. Amazing how easy it is to be distracted when trippin' through the desert.
I think educating yourself about Rattlesnakes is the best way to aleviate your fears
They are beautiful animals and don't really want to be around you either.
edit:
The rattle is to warn potential preditors. They don't use it to freak out thier prey.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2011 - 04:54pm PT
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I've been to Josh many times, and it seems to me that Spring is a time with more snake activity. late Fall seems to be more 'iffy' w/r to weather, but I never saw a snake in November. Or has my memory failed me?
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apogee
climber
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Oct 25, 2011 - 04:54pm PT
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"...but do they rattle before biting prey."
Prey? No. That's their food, so no point in scaring it off.
You & I are not their 'prey', though. That rattle is a warning...that's all. I've had near misses where they rattled, and some where they didn't. Each time, and every time, they went off because they were surprised...by me.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Oct 25, 2011 - 04:59pm PT
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do they rattle before biting prey
no
they rattle to warn you of their presence when they get surprised unawares with nowhere convenient to hide
many older ones have been attacked by people; and they just want to get away without a fight
you are not suitable prey and they don't want to waste venom on you and even if they strike they probably 9 times out of 10 won't inject venom unless you have really terrified them
if you just freeze (a large nearby critter moving, is scary to them), they will try to exit the area as soon as they stop worrying that you will attack them
even if you do attack them; they just want to get away
if you don't want them in the area near your home; just give them some competition for the local rodents; i.e. a pet cat, etc
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Oct 25, 2011 - 05:00pm PT
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Once the cold weather sets in, the odds of running into a rattler are about as great as me on-sight soloing a 5.13.
This generally coincides with early November, though weather may dictate earlier or later time frames. Don't expect to see the snakes again until March or so.
I've seen plenty of snakes and rattlers in Josh (probably hundreds of them). The Mojave species is more aggressive (meaning far less shy and occasionally more "confrontational") than others -- at least based upon my experience. But, snakes generally will do their best to avoid you -- you are huge, scary and not a food source. Baby rattlers can be an exception to that rule though.
When I took Herpetology in college, anyone who got bit automatically flunked. Most bite victims are young males, who are attempting to capture or play with the rattlers -- alcohol and/or drugs are usually a factor.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 25, 2011 - 05:30pm PT
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Earliest I saw a buzzworm was March 18.
Latest was like November 21.
However, the scaly faced tweeker rat does not hibernate and presents a threat to laden vehicles all winter long.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
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Oct 25, 2011 - 05:39pm PT
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I see rattlers about once a year in Josh, usually late spring or early fall. Never seen them in winter or even early spring.
They are not usually aggressive, they just want to get out of your way. If they make a rattle just slowly walk away (unless they are at the base of the climb you want to do!).
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strangeday
Trad climber
Brea ca.
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Oct 25, 2011 - 05:53pm PT
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Saw my first one last year, out near the asteroid boulders. That was in early spring, and there were noticeably more rodents about at that time as well. I too am kind of paranoid of them, I stepped on one a few years back up in Angeles forest. He took a "warning" strike at me, and luckily I was wearing heavy leather hiking boots. I wouldn't worry about jtree too much in the winter months. I've seen more big horn than rattlers out there.
"buzz worms" love it!! Never heard them called that...
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Oct 25, 2011 - 05:57pm PT
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You sound like my grandmother, who used to warn me about snakes on the rocks when I went climbing.
I've been climbing out there since '77 or '78 and have never seen one. Did see a rosy boa once and some bighorn, both of which were pretty cool. Compare that to Mt. Woodson, which I've been to maybe five times with a snake sighting each time. I think you're safe.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Oct 25, 2011 - 06:10pm PT
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"buzz worms" love it!! Never heard them called that...
I believe the full taxonomy is "buck-toothed buzzworms".
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2011 - 06:26pm PT
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I'm not that unfamiliar with the little bastards, living on a Wyoming ranch. To be specific, I don't LIKE them. I prefer to avoid them, as I'm sure they would like to avoid ME. I normally have to kill of a bunch every summer to protect my calves from getting bit by them. I prefer to practice avoidance and abstinance of snakes.
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
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Oct 25, 2011 - 06:29pm PT
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some more current research suggests rattlers don't really hibernate. they go into a zen like state as it cools, and drift farther away from the surface as it get colder.
LOL I have seen them at the "Instant Karma" Yoga Studio in winter.
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