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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 2, 2006 - 02:50am PT
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I'm curious if anyone here, who owns a Metolius Bomb Shelter, would be kind enough to post or send me some close-up photos of the corners...? I keep reading about the open corners being so easy to put together, but can't seem to find any photos of them.
I'm in the process of designing a ledge and am wanting to see all examples I can of the different systems, as well as what it might take to turn this out on our CNC machine. Basically, just trying to see what is out there, the options/different designs. So, if you have anything you think would be the "ideal thing to have in a ledge", let me know.
Thanks!
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Holdplease2
Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
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Sending you some:
Interestingly, they are easy to put together, but they also fall apart if you are setting it up solo...its hard to keep the ends in. You have to tension it just right. This is particularly challenging if you set up a double ledge solo. It can be learned, but the first 8-10 nights it kinda sucks.
-Kate.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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If your gonna make your own...
Just copy a FISH ledge...Way easy to set up and bomber.
(Just don't tell Russ or the piles of red tape and attorneys fees could bury you)
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lazide
Big Wall climber
Bay Area, CA
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Ditto on what kate says - the assembly is the one thing I hate about my double bombshelter. (I've spent about 20 nights on it solo, and the rage is just now starting to subside :P)
I'm tallish (6') so the extra length of the bombshelter over the others is ultra nice too.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
I have a giant ASS™™
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R&D at CNC writes:
ideal thing to have in a ledge
A bold Maxim page 5 girl leader and unending booze? Wait, scratch half that..... unending booze would have to be it. Wait... maybe just a pistol.... wait... fresh socks. Yeah, that's it.. fresh socks.
C'mon man... put your thinking cap on and reinvent the wheel. Ain't nuthing out there that can't be improved upon with about 9 brain cells more than I have and a cocktail napkin.
For some real R&D go to Kmart and look and the folding lounge chairs.... add some alloy, add some close tolerance parts and you have the best ledge in the world..... the future is here.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 2, 2006 - 03:01pm PT
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Kate-- Got the pics. Thanks! They certainly helped.
Shack-- I have a Fish ledge in my garage... Really nothing to copy on it. It's pretty much the most basic of ledge designs that most otehr ledges use/have used forever. Although bomber, and cost effective, nothin' innovative about it. No offense, Russ! I'm sure none takin' cause I think that's your marketing point! Bomber, cost effective. Just works!
Russ-- hahaha! I'm not so sure I'd throw out the Maxim girl so fast. If she's there for more than a few days, however, the gun could come in handy. CMac wouldn't be accompanying the maxim chick, right? =)
I'm just trying to see what's out there, Russ? I've already turned out a couple of different things that I'm way happy with, as far as corners. Checking out other people ideas can often spark improvements or innovations to pop into your head, however. If no one ever saw a car, it's potential, etc... I suppose we'd not have a super charger or turbo, eh?
I mean if I wanted to actually copy the thing, I'd be finished, well, weeks ago. Simply a matter of re-modeling the thing in SolidWorks and programming the CNC. Not too big a deal, ya know?
Thanks for the responses, guys!
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Russ Walling
Social climber
I have a giant ASS™™
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Say... there was a dude on here a while back who was all about carbon fiber..... or something just as sinister that the military has.... Sounded good, had the usual fatal flaws, and was beyond pricey. Hmmm...... maybe do search?
Think hinges man.... it's all about hinges. Hinges and telescopic carbon fiber tubes.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 2, 2006 - 03:21pm PT
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Yeah, I have some carbon tube sitting in the shop. Not too bad at only $9.00 a foot. I'm really wanting to get me design all finished, testing complete, etc. before I add the carbon. I think it was probably Tom Kasper you're thinking of for the Carbon. I know Tom. he said splintering was a big problem. We figured we'd simply mill some caps that would presson (cement as well) to the ends of the tubing. Lot of work for all of that though.
I've also been working with a hinge design. As a starting point, I looked at BD's Sky Lounge. Cool concept, application sucks, IMO. I've come up with something I think is better. We'll see, I suppose.
But I'd definitely agree with you there, Russ. I also think there are better fabrics to be had for the bed. Something I'm working with is pretty trick.
Cheers!
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 2, 2006 - 03:26pm PT
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telescoping carbon tubes... Now *that* would rock!
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Russ Walling
Social climber
I have a giant ASS™™
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Yeah, that's the guy! Tom....
Carbon fiber telescopic side tubes that go into bushing lined Carbon fiber end tubes. Set up in 12 seconds. Bed of Spectralite..... weight 4.6 lbs, super rigid, super strong and wait.... that is the ledge I'm working on... forget I ever said anything ;)
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Yup, that's my Fish ledge in Randy's garage. I've used it for 261 nights on El Cap, and a few more nights here and there. Superb thing - you can't miss it on the wall with the Crab-O-Flag on the bottom. Russ'll look after ya, too, in the future if you need any maintenance.
Tom built his own ledge and has used it on a bunch of walls with me. I honestly can't remember what the skinny was on the carbon fibre. It was a bit splintery as I recall.
I am far too lazy to bother taking my ledge down and putting it back up, and it's kinda hard because the shoe repairman sewed the flag on a bit too tight, so I really have to fight it. My ledge is flagged pretty much all the time.
Interesting comments about setting up the Metolius. Tom used a single on Tribal Rite - I was reviewing it for Gripped Magazine. It seemed pretty easy to set up once you got the hang of it, but perhaps a double is a bit trickier? The whole idea with Metolius' open-corner design is that the thing is supposed to be easier to set up, so my eyebrows were raised - to say the least - by the comments above.
Whatever happened to those BD ledges with the hinges? Do they still make them, or not?
Man, Conrad Wanker was really pissed by my review, and I liked his ledge the best! What can I say - some guys get it, and some guys don't. It would have been nice if he had provided an instruction sheet, as I had NO idea you could rotate the suspension system to equalize wear on both sides of the ledge [great idea] and that it came with rubber bumpers to go against the wall [another great idea]. Never saw the bumpers, didn't know. {shrug}
Pika's ledge was quite nice, and surprised me. It's about the only piece of Pika gear I've ever used that I like. I nearly frickin' DIED on the A5 crux pitch of Reticent Wall when a store-bought Pika head failed at the swage, sending me on a thirty-foot upside-down fall that was miraculously caught by an upside-down-placed #3 head and fully-deployed Screamer.
If anyone at Pika is reading this, please send me a new head.
On the other hand, maybe not....
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Euroford
Trad climber
Chicago, IL
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hey kate, if you got some close-up picks of a metolius ledge i'd like to have them as well. thinking about buying one, and well, needless to say, none of my local shops have one available for observation.
euroford@yahoo.com
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1timer
Trad climber
The Future
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Euroford,
there is one listed on ebay right now that looks to be in excellent shape. You might want to take a look.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! How could I forget Big Wall Eric? His license plate said ELCAP 5, he had a swager in the back of his truck for making heads, and he had made his own portaledge from US Navy aircraft aluminum.
The ledge worked pretty well until I was standing on it, and the tube went "SNAP!" The result is illustrated above.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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What do you guys know about Basalt tubing? Gitzo Tripods released this "Basalt" line last year as a cheaper lightweight alternative to their carbon fiber tripods. Somehow they turned stone into tubes. Not sure if it's any good or what, but it would be worth looking into. I noticed they didn't offer big tripods made from the basalt tubing.
gitzo.com, click products, then Basalt.
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Euroford
Trad climber
Chicago, IL
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thanks for the ebay link guys, but i can order it brand new from moosejaw (a local store in these parts) for less than the starting bid price. yup, $595.00 whith the 'whale' code at moosejaw.com + 7000 'reward' points, equavalent to $70.
when did ebay start sucking so bad? if that ledge was 'buy er now' for like $400 i'd but it in a heartbeat.
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Landgolier
climber
the flatness
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Whale code? Is this some big orders only thing? I hate moosejaw, but I like cheap gear.
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Euroford
Trad climber
Chicago, IL
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hate moosejaw? they don't have everything, but you can usually get great deals on the stuff they do. the "whale" code is for 20% off, but i think you may have to be a member for this to work. i buy what i can there, they would be the closest thing to chicago's "mom and pop" gear shop.
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Landgolier
climber
the flatness
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I had some bad experiences with them. Never believe their estimated shipping dates; they will tell you stuff is in stock when it is actually backordered. I had it out with their web manager when the crap I had ordered with a month to go before a trip still hadn't shipped for pushing two weeks after they claimed it would, while the whole time you could go on their web site and it said the same thing would ship tomorrow. It was all excuses and lies from them, including "but we're a small little operation." Come on, they have like 6 or 7 storefronts and probably do as much online as anyone except REI.
The same thing had happened to me with another order from them before and I had given them a mulligan, but this was f'ing up my universe. Finally half the order drop-shipped from the manufacturer, and I cancelled the other half and blew like 3 hours driving out to NW bufu to REI.
I am glad that there's a shop I can roll by in town without making a burbs run when I need something random, but I'm done with them for mail order. I've also got all these rewards points sitting around that I want to burn up, but they've been out of almost all of their yates and trango stuff since like December. From now on I'm sticking with gearexpress, though I hope they make it through this season since there has been no ice down there.
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