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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 15, 2011 - 03:09pm PT
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Los Angeles police who struck King, a harmless drunk
Don't want to take this off in the wrong direction, but couldn't help but notice this statement in the above article. Harmless??? I don't think so.
That said, I have no idea why there is any law saying one can't use a camera to videotape a police officer doing his or her job.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2011 - 03:15pm PT
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I think it needs to be an enumerated protected right.
edit ; cross posted fattrad
Fatty don't tell me police video doesn't work; they wouldn't do it if it wasn't useful.
What is wrong with public servant accountability?
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Aug 15, 2011 - 03:21pm PT
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Ron, the camera adds ten to fifteen pounds and the already fat cops don't like that cause it makes them look bad.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 15, 2011 - 03:30pm PT
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Soon enough, decent quality videocameras will be small, simple and light enough that their use by the police may be mandatory for all interactions with the public, unless they can show compelling reasons why it wasn't possible to record. It will also be interesting to learn what right the public and suspects have to record such interactions, or perhaps more accurately, what limitations there may be on that right. Where it truly interferes with the conduct of an investigation, perhaps.
Sooner or later a case where the police didn't videotape interaction with a suspect where they reasonably could have, where they refused to allow a member of the public or a suspect to record interaction where it was unreasonable to do so, or where they confiscate video made by non-involved members of the public will make new constitutional law.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Aug 15, 2011 - 04:32pm PT
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"I have done that," claims memory. "I cannot have done that," pride retorts. Or, to put it differently: The past is what happened, history what they decide to remember. They mine the past for myths to buttress their present.
The camera distorts this distortion of reality, this ecology of the stalker's mind.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 15, 2011 - 04:38pm PT
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Does anyone here want a video on them all day at work? I doubt any of us do.
For that reason, I can see why they'd be bothered.
But I can see why the cameras are good for the public. And I can see why the cameras help protect officers against false accusations of excessive force.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Aug 15, 2011 - 04:55pm PT
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Protects and discloses.
Policemen are probably not afraid of the protection. It is the disclosure of what should not have been done that is feared when cameras are taken and broken. At times policemen are breaking the law by intention, but most of the time destruction done by the police is a consequence of dealing with the dilemmas connected to their work. But the routine cover up afterwards is not serving the police well anymore (as it always "did" before). And the reason for this is the camera. Cover up and lies are exposed.
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wayne burleson
climber
Amherst, MA
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Aug 15, 2011 - 05:15pm PT
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MH makes thoughtful and good points (as usual).
Although we don't want video of our private lives,
any interaction with government is no longer private.
The Constitution, although supposedly based on first principles,
will probably need amendment to account for
certain new technologies...
We grapple with this on 2nd, 4th and other existing
amendments...
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Mangy Peasant
Social climber
Riverside, CA
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Aug 15, 2011 - 05:18pm PT
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Does anyone here want a video on them all day at work? I doubt any of us do.
Most of us don't have the power to incarcerate, hurt, or or even to kill someone based solely on our version of a story.
I don't want a camera on me all day at work either, but I'd be willing to allow someone to film my occasional nose picking and butt scratching if it opened the door to more police accountability.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 15, 2011 - 05:21pm PT
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Does anyone here want a video on them all day at work?
Maybe the question should be, "do you want to work? Oh, and by the way,
you're a public servant, get it?"
I don't much like seeing millions of our tax dollars going to settle cases.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Aug 15, 2011 - 06:07pm PT
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Dingus, I suspect you are right that increased survelliance will increase law suits.
But the question is whether it will increase justice.
If we got rid of security cameras and security alarms, we might have fewer criminal trials. Hell, just get rid of all the cops...
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 15, 2011 - 06:10pm PT
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90% of crime is gene-related. If we locked up everyone with a Y chromosome, crime rates would plummet.
Edit: Not referring to Genes, just genes.
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Gene
climber
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Aug 15, 2011 - 06:11pm PT
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90% of crime is gene-related.
You sound like my wife.
EDIT: That's better.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2011 - 06:17pm PT
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I think civilians have a constitutionally protected right to video tape police officers on the job in public.
Did you read the article?
Did you read froodish's link?
I've had cops and tsa agents threaten to arrest me if I didn't turn off the camera.
They can be very capricious, and I think we could use an amendment protecting the right to record public servants so that they would be less likely to make threats like that.
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Gene
climber
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Aug 15, 2011 - 06:27pm PT
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Would this right include those who are being questioned by the police or just third parties? 'Hold on, Officer Krupke, while I grab my video camera.' Who would determine if/when participation by the photographer impedes the ability of the LEO to do his/her job?
While there may be a benefit to recording police - civilian encounters, all sorts of unintended consequences would arise from such a right.
g
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 15, 2011 - 06:28pm PT
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Perhaps we should all have cameras in our personal cars. Then when we speed or run a "ripe yellow" light or break the law in our car we can be ticketed through the mail.
I understand the public loves red light cameras too - they beg for more (not).
While not a perfect analogy, it is similar. We don't want to be watched all the time - even if we are in public and on streets in our cars where we can easily maim or kill others. Seems a bit human.
Why would anyone be surprised that a human who puts on a police uniform also wouldn't want to be watched all the time?
I'm not saying they should or shouldn't like cameras - it is clear they are protected by them from false allegations of use of force - just saying it doesn't surprise me they are ambivalent.
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Homer
Mountain climber
742 Evergreen Terrace
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Aug 15, 2011 - 06:44pm PT
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Seems like just a NIMBY response by people who have the power to enforce it, supported by folks who believe LEO and suspect are mutually exclusive.
I think as technology advances, loss of privacy is inevitable. It might not be all bad - maybe we'll have more accountability by everyone.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Aug 15, 2011 - 06:48pm PT
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fattrad, socialist liberals do CARE..
video the police so we can see when they do wrong. just like when they video us when we go wrong.
sucker..
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