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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 17, 2011 - 10:04am PT
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OK, here we go.
This has to have its own thread. Does GOD exist? If so, is there a Heaven?
PhD Stephen Hawkings obviously says "No." I enjoy and have learned a great deal about the natural Universe around us through Hawkings wonderful books, but I see a wonderfully smart man really blowing it by amputating off the spiritual side of his being and nature. There he royally blows it.
There is the physical.
There is the spiritual.
Both are valid.
Both have to be deeply considered and investigated.
Only then do you have a more complete picture of the Cosmos.
Posted at 11:13 AM ET, 05/16/2011
Stephen Hawking: ‘There is no heaven’
By Elizabeth Tenety
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/under-god/post/stephen-hawking-there-is-no-heaven/2011/05/16/AF6hNs4G_blog.html
How, if at all, does Hawking’s declaration that there is no heaven, and that God is not ‘necessary’ impact what you believe about God? What mysteries of the universe keep you up at night?
I have many ways to argue against this, a few follow:
Namely our scientific founding fathers, many of whom did great science, gave us the scientific method, and worked out many wonderful laws of nature, yet many were also men of Faith. They believed in Deities or a Deity: Aristotle, Copernicus, Tycho Brahe/Johannes Kepler, Galileo, Newton, and yes even Einstein (new info on Einstein that I will post that comes from official notes of a private meeting between the late prime minister of Isreal David Ben-Gurion and Albert Einstein), to name only a few. You can't argue that was because everyone believed back then, it was the times and no more. No, I can argue circles around that fallacy. Even today we have great men and women of science who also have faith and believe in a deity or deities.
Also who among us has clinically died, or has had a near death experience to come back and tell us about it, and this can be medically verified? Certainly not PhD Stephen Hawkings. If he had he wouldn't have said what he has so publicly claimed.
Two great books to read:
Heaven is for Real: A Little Boy's Astounding Story of His Trip to Heaven and Back [Paperback]
Todd Burpo (Author), Lynn Vincent (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Heaven-Real-Little-Astounding-Story/dp/0849946158/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=IGT91B2LS1K4T&colid=2GL3DFQ4AXH2G
90 Minutes in Heaven: A True Story of Death & Life [Paperback]
Don Piper (Author), Cecil Murphey (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/90-Minutes-Heaven-Story-Death/dp/0800759494/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_c
I have read both books. The eye-witness testimony is backed up by medical doctors who can validate the fact that yes they were dead, or had a near death experience.
The little boy saw things in his out of body experience before he left the hospital to another Dimension or Heaven that validates that indeed it happened, as far as eye-witness can validate. He witnessed his mother and father doing things in private separate from one another that only the father would know he had done, and only the mother would know she had done. The boy testified to what they were both doing in private that no-one living had witnessed them do. This blew away the parents both. They were shocked by this when the boy told them specifically what they were doing when the parents were at the hospital worried that they were going to lose their little boy. He saw them and what they were doing as he was floating in a spiritual realm above them, then he went to Heaven for a period of time. And after some time in Heaven, then Jesus sent him back, because the father prayed to GOD not to take his little boy from him. Jesus heard his prayer and honored the father's prayer, and he sent the little boy back to his parents. Jesus even told the little boy this before doing so. He explained why he was sending him back to be with his parents again. The boy knew this and told his parents so.
Both books are eye-opening accounts and very good short reads.
There are some things that you just can't argue out of. Our founding fathers of science, many were men of faith. And people do die or have near death experiences and go to "Heaven" (where ever it is), and come back to tell us about it.
You can choose to believe it or not.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 17, 2011 - 10:09am PT
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you believe in heaven
Hawking does not
end of thread
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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May 17, 2011 - 10:48am PT
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However there still remains the question of Ed's position on all this:
Ed Confronts the First Wyde
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 17, 2011 - 10:52am PT
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Ed is a charter member of the Chuch of the Wide Crack Sepluchre.
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luggi
Trad climber
from the backseat of Jake& Elwood Blues car
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May 17, 2011 - 10:52am PT
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Ed does resemble Moses I would think
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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May 17, 2011 - 11:32am PT
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Isaac Newton was a prodigious Biblical Scholar in addition to being the inventor of Calculus and gave us our first mathematical interpretation of physical phenomena now simply called "Physics." However he may heve been using his intellect and knowledge of the Bible to clarify his own views.
There were many other groups, many of them shadowy, such as the Rosicrucians, Knights Templar, and the subsequent Freemasons which were refuges for the intellectuals of the times, and provided secret places of freedom for discourse that was regarded as "heretical" by the powerful religious orders of the times. In fact the "Royal Society" was based on King Charles II membership in a Masonic Lodge that allowed freedom of scientific expression.
Some known Rosicrucians: Robert Boyle, Isaac Newton, Leonardo DaVinci.
Ever since I was just a kid, relatives have tried (and failed) to beat some religion into me. Just because I know quite about the subject doesn't make me a convert.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 17, 2011 - 11:33am PT
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Stephen, say it ain't so!
Like I had a snowball's chance anyway.
Wouldn't have known anybody there, either.
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hairyapeman
Trad climber
1.5 hours from Yosemite!!!
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May 17, 2011 - 11:44am PT
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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May 17, 2011 - 11:48am PT
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Great Photoshop job!
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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May 17, 2011 - 11:54am PT
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WOW I think that is Klimmer's shortest post EVER
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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May 17, 2011 - 12:14pm PT
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What one of the previous posts does prove is what happens to climbers attempting to exist in the Valley for weeks by eating just dog food....
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
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May 17, 2011 - 12:15pm PT
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Hawking isn't saying anything that existentialists like, Camus, Sartre and Nietzsche have not stated before. This is old news.
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monolith
climber
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May 17, 2011 - 12:16pm PT
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Hey Klimmer, how about starting an abortion thread?
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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May 17, 2011 - 12:50pm PT
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Heaven, schmeven!
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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May 17, 2011 - 01:08pm PT
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It's merely his opinion. Guess we'll all find out the yea or nay of it eventually. :D
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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May 17, 2011 - 01:10pm PT
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It's funny how you say "he blew it" because he challenges your beliefs and I would assume you would think the same of every person that challenges your beliefs.
Maybe you are blowing it for not challenging your own beliefs.
It's interesting how people, religious people in particular (not all), don't challenge their own beliefs. They just seek that which affirms their own convictions and their Bible.
People that have to lecture others on morals and values are the very opposite of what they preach.
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WBraun
climber
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May 17, 2011 - 02:04pm PT
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‘There is no heaven’
How stupid can anyone be. This is the height of supreme stupidity.
Anyone with an eyeball can see the heavens above at night .....
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