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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 9, 2011 - 02:58pm PT
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More properly called .303 British, it was developed in 1887 for the Lee-Metford Mk1 rifle (James Paris Lee was actually an American), and was adopted by the British Commonwealth as their military cartridge lasting an astounding 69 years (through both world wars!) until replaced by the .308 (AKA 7.62mm Nato).
Originally loaded with 70 grains of blackpowder the load was converted to cordite in 1892 significantly increasing muzzle energy.
When reports came back in the 1890s that the original fully jacketed 215 grain round nosed bullet was sometimes ineffective on restless natives Captain Bertie Clay set about redesigning the projectile.
Using only a partially jacketed round exposing the lead core at the tip had satisfying results as far greater expansion resulted on impact.
This has led to much confusion and mythology for a strange reason.
You see, Captain Clay was stationed at the arsenal in Dum Dum, India, and that is where the term "dumdum bullet" comes from (not scoring the business end of the projectile.)
The first dumdums were .303
Anyway, Metford's contribution to the rifle design, rounded land rifling, was rendered moot by cordite, and Lee continued to refine his design in dozens of significant ways at the Royal Small Arms factory in Enfield.
Probably the most important model originated in 1903 with 5" of barrel as well as the cleaning rod removed.
The short magazine Lee-Enfield Mk1, known by the acronym "Smelly", is considered to be one of the ten best rifles ever made.
It is so robust that many of the tens of millions manufactured have been rechambered to more powerful rounds than the .303
Anybody know which climber spent the better part of two years rechambering Smellies before going on to put up routes on the Captain?
I'm sure BDC can post some .303 photos,..
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Doh! Thought this was about Denver. :)
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Cool, I didn't know that little tidbit about the history of the .303 round.
The Lee-Enfield was certainly one of the best rifles ever made. It holds up well against other great rifles of the time like the Mosin-Nagant (an extremely reliable rifle) and my personal favorite, the Yankee M1 Grand.
The .303 is a better round than the 7.62 IMO. When the Brits began using the more powerful and heavy round they noted that it tended to "pass on through" the target rather than expand and tumble like the .303. The .308 FAL which replaced the Enfield line is one of my favorite rifles ever made. However the 7.62mm round has more limitations than positives on the battlefield which is why the Brits alongside a growing number of countries have switched to the more effective and accurate 5.56 Nato or .223mm round in their current infantry rifle, the SA80 or L85A2 as the Brits like to call it.
I own a Mk 1 "jungle carbine". Great rifle.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Check out the 303 soliloquy in Breaker Morant. Classic.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2011 - 04:40pm PT
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Yeah, I was going to bring that up about Rule .303 in BM (great film).
EDIT
Another great line from Breaker Morant; Bryon Brown regarding his character's adulterous hijinks, "Nobody misses a slice off a cut loaf."
My FAL is a Springfield. Anybody know who has metric mags for sale?
Interesting FAL factoid.
During the Falklands spat both sides carried the FAL, but the Argentines had select fire.
The Brits traded their rifles for the select fire ones they could capture.
The irony is that the FAL kicks like a mule and is even more inaccurate in full auto than say an M14, which is to say you are gonna put a lot of "holes in the sky".
Better off in semi-auto, the ammo lasts longer.
But back to .303
Isn't that what shot down the Red Baron?
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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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That cordite sure has a distinctive smell.
This year, I'll be picking up a FN AR in 7.62, heavy 20 inch barrel. Uses metric mags. You having a hard time finding those mags Ron?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2011 - 04:57pm PT
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J&G usually have them by the crate.
Fresh out.
It is weird, despite the ammo scare people kept buying guns and mags.
Now they just can't afford to load them anymore.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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I think I've posted this before, but for those who haven't seen it:
and
For those unfamiliar with what at one time were called "Light Machine Guns," that denotes a machine gun capable of being carried and served by just a gunner as opposed to a crew-served automatic weapon requiring tripod, ammo carrier, and an assistant gunner. Uniformly they were issued in the same caliber as the standard infantry rifle. The U.S. Army and Marine Corps uniformly used the famous BAR, or Browning Automatic Rifle in this role.
Currently they are referred to as a "SAW," or Squad Automatic Weapon.
The BREN, in cal.303 British served through W.W. II, Korea, and into the Falklands. The weapon was so well liked by the troops that they practically had to be pried from their hands. After owning 2 BRENs I can understand why; I also owned one manufacturesd by John Inglis, Co. in Canada chambered in 8 mm Mauser that was devoid of any amrkings other than the caliber, 7.92 M. This models, and lfewer than 5000 were ever manufactured, were supplied to Tito's Partisans in Jugoslavia.
The BREN was not a British designed weapon, and had it's origin in the Czechoslovakian VZ-26 designed by Vaklav Holek for the Czech government. I aslo have owned 3 VZ-26s over the years, and the reputation of the firearm for reliability and accuracy caused an armament commission in Britain to solicit a model made in .303 British; this was accomplished and the pilot model designated vz-33. The British government signed a contract and license agreement and did some simplification for their methods of manufacture, and the final design became the BREN. BR from the Brno arsenal, and the EN from Enfield lock in Britain.
I can unequivocally state that of all the fine automatic rifles/light machine guns that I have either owned or fired, the .303 BREN leads the pack by a huge margin. The absolute worst? The U.S. M-60!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2011 - 05:03pm PT
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The round or rifle, Bruce?
The round is .303 British
Companies tagging their names onto proprietary calibers is more of a American practice, but does occur overseas.
Nobody has the El Cap pioneer Smelly converter?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2011 - 05:34pm PT
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Rodger,.... isn't there something missing??????????????
Fits into the top,... kind of banana shaped (or better for aircraft, pan head)???????
Another thing about the Bren is that it fires from an open bolt, so there is far less danger of it cooking off rounds when it gets hot.
Rodger, have you heard about the Australians using the striker springs from their #36 grenades to add onto the return guide rod to significantly increase the rate of fire?
I've had some M60 trigger time. Reminds me of driving a Chevy.
The 249 is an improvement, but I hear has jamming problems when you are crawling around in the sand.
Anyway, back to those Czechs, boy they must be an ornery bunch because they make some badass guns, some of my favorites.
Lets not forget that Maxim made the machine gun after a chance encounter with a friend who said to him that if he wanted to make money he just needed to invent something that would allow these damned europeans to kill each other faster.
Hotchkiss was another American (the son of a famed General) who moved to europe to design guns.
And, of course, John M. Browning made 60 odd trips to Belgium.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Ron-
I didn't take any photos with the "30 round" magazines in place. Nominally they are really good for 27-28 rounds if jamming is to be avoided. There is also a kit adapting the BREN to take special 100 round drum magazines similar to the Lewis gun. That was the so-called antiaircraft setup.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Just let's not talk about the notorious Ross Rifle, which Canadian troops had forced on them in World War I. They did everything they could to pick up Lee Enfields instead. The Ross simply wasn't field reliable, in what were rather challenging conditions. A robust and reliable weapon, whether for combat or climbing, is often preferable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_rifle
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Ditto for Czech made firearms.
I've owned a Brno 30-06 since I was fifteen.
Plain looking, smooth as silk and deadly accurate.
Wouldn't trade it for the shiniest alternative.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2011 - 07:54pm PT
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My Smelly ran $79 in the late '90s.
Sometime I'll post a photo of my CZ 9mm with 22 round clip, Surefire light, tactical ram, and 5" bayonet!
(First I gotta figure out how to attach the Swiss Army knife)
My CZ 556 with french set trigger actually makes a better tannerite detonator than my H bar Rem 700 with laminated bench stock in .22-250
My latest CZ has the exact same lines and chambering (.308) as my ancient Mauser, but that french trigger is a tad better than the Mauser, which has so much travel the shooter needs a running start.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2011 - 08:23pm PT
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Negative on Chuck Pratt.
He is younger than donini but doesn't climb as much.
(yeah I know, that doesn't rule out very many)
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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For ammo and military gun parts, check this site out
http://www.auctionarms.com
I have a Mk3, love it. I took it down to parade rest, sanded and refinished the wood, then cleaned and reblued the metal. Its still battlefield stock, but looks real nice. Deadly accurate too.
Im partial to my 8mm (7.92) mauser however. Its just a real accurate cannon.
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edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
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Donini the Smelly man?
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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That BREN is pretty sweet. Weren't they favored for not only their reliability and smooth operation, but for the fact that they had a slow rate of fire, making it one of the most accurate light machine guns ever produced? I sure would jump at the chance for some trigger time behind that thing.
Interesting note about British .303 ammunition. Several forms and upgrades took place throughout the 70 years that this round saw service. The early "hollow point" versions (Mark 3,4 and 5) were prohibited by the Hague convention of 1899. This lead to the Mark 6 which was a rounded nose version similar to the older Mark 2 but with a much thinner copper casing. The idea being that the thinner jacketed round would flatten and expand more easily mimicking the actions of a hollow point bullet.
That wasn't the case so what they came up with was the Mark 7. This version utilized a pointed bullet design as well as a lighter grain bullet giving it a much higher velocity. The big change in design wasn't this pointed (spitzer) round or the lighter grain. The big change was that 1/3 of the bullet was replaced by softer materials like Aluminum and eventually wood pulp. The lighter nose of the bullet makes the round bottom heavy causing it to tumble and roll when hitting a target rather than just passing through. This was a much more devastating round that the British used up until the .303 was replaced by the 7.62 in the late 60's.
To show the gentlemanly conduct of the British, they actually required the pulp used in the front 1/3rd of the bullet to be sterilized in production to help prevent infection of the wound. How civil of them Brits eh!
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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The BREN was actually prized more for the ease with which the barrels could be changed; about 2 seconds for an experienced gunner. The cyclic rate is higher than the U.S. Browning 1919 A4 (550 RPM vs 450 RPM). The speed king from these older MGs was the German MG42 at ~1100-1200 RPM. There were usually 2 bullets in the barrel at the same time!
However the accuracy of the BREN is legendary; a complete magazine into a bushel basket size target at 900 yards.
A dealer-friend of mine has an rare and unusual BREN manufactured in Taiwan: it's one of a handful manufactured in .30-06!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2011 - 09:02pm PT
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Read again edejom.
Salamanizer thats like wiping with a swab of alcohol in the prisons that perform lethal injections.
gonamok, I'm not gonna pay $50 for a clip.
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