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Decko
Trad climber
Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 22, 2011 - 09:02pm PT
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So as many may of you may know 4 people were killed in an unfortunate incident today, or yesterday depending on the time change.
OK so knowing your heading into suspect waters, and I'm one of those people who believe from having traveled a LOT that about %99 of humans are good.
Why are you not armed, and I mean, rifle, shotgun, handgun.
I understand international regulation about guns, but come on, on your own ship you can't hide these guns.
Obviously the "pirates" know people are not armed.
And how/why if our own navy is in the area, and knows these pirates are sent from a "mother ship" WTF doesn't that mother ship vanish in the dark of night.
Why are we taking on the expense of sending 15 or so "captured pirates" back to America for trial ??
When our federal jails are probably more cush than the shitty place these "pirates" are coming from.
Hey I do believe that everyone has a purpose in life and do believe you shouldn't just take someones life for the heck of it, but these fkers are worth sinking in the middle of the night.
Problem solved......
Shiat our government kills more civilians every stinking day in Iraq and Afghanistan.........
What gives ??????????????????
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 22, 2011 - 09:18pm PT
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Naive "christians" wouldn't have armed anyway.
The Sammies are terrorists. Why not GETMO?
I'd love to see the equivalent of Bait Car set up.
Slow yacht with enticing targets being shadowed underwater by submarine with SEAL teams at the ready.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Feb 22, 2011 - 09:22pm PT
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This was proposed way back.
I'll bet you could build a pretty profitable business with a tour service that offered a chartered yacht and your choice of rental weapons and ammo for sale.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 22, 2011 - 09:26pm PT
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Its the Navy, because the victims are Americans in international waters.
I think the USN would not like amateurs horning in on their fun.
Probably treat the bloodthirsty hunters almost as rough as the greedy hunters.
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NigelSSI
Trad climber
B.C.
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Feb 22, 2011 - 09:49pm PT
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Biggest victims are Somalians.
Here's the short list:
Massive corruption
Civil war
Toxic waste? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article418665.ece
Mass sales of energy rights to foreign entities by a corrupt govt. 'Grats!
49.5 year life expectancy
2005 WHO estimate is 97.9% of women are circumcised.
Piracy is the last thing to worry about. Who the f*#k cares if a bit of shipping gets disrupted?
Expect piracy until the whole deal gets sorted.
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Dapper Dan
Trad climber
Menlo Park
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Feb 22, 2011 - 09:49pm PT
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I read a couple articles on two of the people killed , the couple that was sailing around the world. it said this was their second time in those pirate infested waters . I know they must have thought chances are they would not get caught up with pirates , but I don't understand how they justified knowingly sailing into dangerous waters . So sad , I feel terrible for them and their family.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Feb 22, 2011 - 10:06pm PT
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Decko I hear you. But when you come to port you must allow your boat to be boarded & searched. The penalty for firearms aboard in most countries is to high to risk. That is why you don't see armed guards on commercial ships.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Feb 23, 2011 - 12:20am PT
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Add to this discussion that apparently at this moment 700 hostages are in the hands of these characters, many for quite some time now. Of all nationalities.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 23, 2011 - 12:34am PT
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This seems a job custom made for the underemployed navies and coast guards of developing countries, who probably have few reservations about forcefully suppressing piracy. With intelligence, guidance and backup from more sophisticated militaries, perhaps. Both off the horn of Africa and the Straits of Malacca.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Feb 23, 2011 - 12:44am PT
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OK so knowing your heading into suspect waters, and I'm one of those people who believe from having traveled a LOT that about %99 of humans are good.
Why are you not armed, and I mean, rifle, shotgun, handgun.
Why do people perpetuate this myth that being armed means being invulnerable to assault? Studies in the US show that being armed greatly increases the chances of being killed while being assaulted/robbed. If being armed deterred all crime then Afghanistan, Somalia and the Western US in the 1800's would be the safest places on Earth.
In reality, a dentist and film producer turned preacher on a pleasure cruise and armed with a couple of handguns/rifles still aren't going to stand much of a chance against a boat load of pirates with assault rifles and intent on taking hostages/doing harm. Well at least you could take a couple of them with you, right? Sure, and you're still just as dead and pirates will simply alter strategies like using multiple boats with more people. Quit living in a fantasy.
TGT said I'll bet you could build a pretty profitable business with a tour service that offered a chartered yacht and your choice of rental weapons and ammo for sale.
I bet you are a serious badass on Xbox Live and respected by 7th graders everywhere.
Fortmental said At least they got no government interference and the right to own all the guns they want. Somalia = freedom!
Yeah, unlike this country where all our guns got taken away after the last presidential election. Oh wait no we are actually #1 in the world for per capita gun ownership (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership); which kind of contradicts what you were saying. In any case I'd be happy to chip in for a one way ticket to Somalia for you so that you can taste True Freedom.
Decko said When our federal jails are probably more cush than the shitty place these "pirates" are coming from.
Yes, if by "cush" you mean "actually get fed." I hate to break this to you but maximum security prisons are shitty places that nobody would really want to be.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
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Feb 23, 2011 - 12:47am PT
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I have a better question. Why the hell would you sail there just to give out bibles? Why would you go near the place? Stay offshore past there and you won't have any problems. Besides, trying to give away bibles in that area will probably also get you killed.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 23, 2011 - 12:50am PT
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Apparently the area in which the pirates are operating has much expanded - not just coastal waters. The mother ships allow them to be well offshore. Which, in turn, means a lot more area to patrol, in what are already heavily-trafficked waters. Even if they were focussing on high-value traffic along the coast, or heading for the Red Sea and Suez, still a lot to cover.
Desperate people, from a failed state.
And yes, the idea of preaching at the locals there, or giving out religious books, is downright kooky. You'd have to have a martyr complex to try that.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Feb 23, 2011 - 12:55am PT
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Ron,
I'd love to see the equivalent of Bait Car set up.
Slow yacht with enticing targets being shadowed underwater by submarine with SEAL teams at the ready.
That's the #1 strategy right there. Friggin' awesome!
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Feb 23, 2011 - 01:48am PT
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The pirates were armed with RPG's and actually fired one at the US Destroyer which is what ended this whole thing. Pretty stupid but if the Americans had been armed they would have been no match for such heavily armed pirates when their boat was taken. Obama should notify the Somali government that from now on due to criminal activity, any Somali vessels that cannot be positively identified as commerical vessels off the Somali coast more then 30 miles out will be blown out of the water, no questions asked.
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vlani
Trad climber
mountain view, ca
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Feb 23, 2011 - 02:04am PT
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Sometime last year Russians captured a horde of Somalians on board of a cargo ship, operated under some banana flag. Then they supposedly let Somalians go because of uncertainties on the situation implied by so called "international law" (WTF is that?). They supposedly let Somalians back on board of their boat, stripped of navigation equipment which was clearly a tool of piracy, same as AK47 and RPG5.
None of the above Somalians was ever involved in a criminal acts.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 23, 2011 - 02:13am PT
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Who is the "we" that is a fifth of the world's population? The population of the US is about 300 million, that is about 5% of the world's - a twentieth, give or take.
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vlani
Trad climber
mountain view, ca
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Feb 23, 2011 - 02:17am PT
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coz must be Chinese.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 23, 2011 - 02:27am PT
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Obama is so far from the trigger decision it's ridiculous - he has no involvement at all and anymore it probably doesn't even raise to the level of Clinton. More likely handled at State through a Pentagon liaison given other pressing matters in the region.
And the ocean is big, as in really BIG, and the territory these guys are operating in is vast. Aside from that it's just one of the few business opportunities in a failed state aside from taking EU toxic waste which requires way more clout and connections. This just takes a decent fishing boat and skiff or three. Low barrier to entry is why it has proliferated so quickly.
Until they let commercial shipping firms hire mercs or armed escorts the situation likely won't change and so far insurance companies and govts have put the nix on those options. It's part of the cost of letting nations fail.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
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Feb 23, 2011 - 10:05am PT
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coz said My bet is the boys had the shoot and the boss (Obama) wouldn't let them pull the trigger.
Only a guess, but captain ball-less strikes again. Tragic!
DMT, oil route, we protect oil, we are a fifth of the world population and we use a third of the world energy resources. How do you think we feed this habit?
Coz I love you and while you probably don't remember me you and I have shared numerous beers and climbing tales in the parking lots of J-Tree and Yosemite. Seriously, though. If you're going to make such assertions they should at least appear to be accurate. If the US was 1/5 of the global population we would have the population of China. Instead we make up about 4.5% of global population. Secondly, if Obama was such a puss as you seem to be stating, then why was the captain of the Maersk Alabama saved in just such an incident? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123953580718311447.html
Lastly, we use about 1/4 of global energy (not 1/3 but still a terrible statistic) and you are absolutely right that our involvement in places like the ME have a lot to do with our energy policy. That's why renewable energy = security.
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