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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 2, 2006 - 12:12am PT
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This thread continues the debate over what really happen on 9-11. Do we have the whole truth? What are the unanswered questions. Was there a conspiracy.
The original thread is here
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=135824&f=0&b=0#msg136631
It had over 200 post so we continue it here for the dial-up folks
An attempt at continuing the thread elsewhere got off-topic. Talk about Radio there. Please stay on topic here.
Peace
karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2006 - 12:34am PT
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Lois, the NY times waited 1 year before publishing the relatively mild news that Bush was wiretapping without Warrants. Coming out with allegations about 9-11 would ruin the paper unless they had an airtight case and an airtight case doesn't exist. For the GOP and Dems alike, the idea that the US even had foreknowledge and looked the other way is unthinkable. And you don't print the unthinkable.
More likely, editors would get persuasive visits at night.
Rememeber months or more back when I was posting about world oil production peaking and causing severe political and economic damage? Many folks were in disbelief and though it was more tin foil hat stuff. Now congress and some mainstream media are even discussing it openly yet we still haven't got our minds to grasp the implications of the end of cheap oil
But eventually we won't be able to ignore it. Iraq is another piece of the puzzle in the very real struggle for power/oil/recycled petrodollars.
Peace
karl
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Majid,
Is it possible the plane broke up in flight because of radical aerobatic manuevers performed by a mob of angry passengers trying to divert the jet off it's intended course? A course by that time the passengers took to be the Capitol Building or the White House. This was a passenger jet, designed for the long smooth haul. Not a fighter jet made for pulling "Gs" in aerial dog-fights.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Rajmit,
You haven't seen the film of the fire-fighting plane breaking-up in flight? All it was doing was changing direction when both wings fell off. If something like that happened twenty-thousand feet up in the sky, I can see pieces scattered over an area greater than a mile and a half.
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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I couldn't read the other thread because I'm dial up so if the video " In Plane Sight " has already been mentioned disregard this. Otherwise rent it - a real eye opener!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2006 - 02:18am PT
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Lots of experts are discussing these issues on the net Lois. You just aren't reading them.
The 9-11 commission was a whitewash body appointed by Bush. The 9-11 families were not satisfied with their investigation and they ignored the tough questions about "Able Danger" the 9-11 war games, and so much more.
Ruppert, a former Republican police detective, wrote "Crossing the Rubicon" which is meticulously documented and has sold over 100,000 copies in a short time. Why don't we get reviews in the mainstream press?
http://tinyurl.com/c9owm
Rocking this boat threatens the stability of our society Lois. Big business owns the mainstream press. I don't consider these theories because I hate Bush. I don't know what Bush knows or not. I think he's just a puppet for the most part. If any real complicity in 9-11 is there, it's Cheney and Rumsfeld and the CIA.
There are tons and tons of things about 9-11 that don't add up. Just even think about my above question about wire transfers to Mohammed Atta from Pakistani offiicials meeting with top CIA. That's just the tip of the iceberg.
Lois, the defense of "I just can't believe it" is lame. If you can't be bothered, just go about your life and don't post on this thread. If you are really curious, read some links and think for yourself. Debate reality based on facts, not your prejudices. I think a lot of 9-11 conspiracy theory is pure crap, but so is the official line.
Peace
Karl
PS Here's what one reviewer of Rupert's book said
"As the #1 Amazon reviewer for non-fiction about global issues and national security (#66 over-all), as a former spy, founder of the Marine Corps Intelligence Command, and CEO and proponent for Open Source Intelligence (OSINT), I think I have a good foundation for evaluating this book. It is so compelling and so troubling that I was obliged to create an eight-page worksheet. My worksheet, sorted alphabetically, is posted to
http://tinyurl.com/87evh
and I offer it respectfully for consideration.
The author alleges that Dick Cheney personally oversaw the 9-11 scenario, with largely fabricated hijackers used by the U.S. military as OPFOR exercise personnel and aided by Israel and Saudi Arabia, that most of the so-called hijackers were not actually on the airplanes; that the two airplanes hitting the WTC were flown by remote control in at least the final minutes from WTC 7 where the Secret Service (Cheney's personal vehicle for running the government) and CIA had their offices; that all three buildings, including WTC 7 which was not hit at all were brought down by controlled explosions, and the Pentagon was hit by a missile aided by a homing device, not Flight 77, which was put down elsewhere. [He notes that Congress was not evacuated, suggesting that either Cheney was incompetent or he knew the missile would hit the homing device in the Pentagon.]
Bottom line: he has NOT provided enough evidence to convict Cheney, but he HAS provided enough evidence to suggest that the 9-11 Commission was very derelict in its duties; that very select elements of the U.S. Government are engaging in a cover-up after facilitating the murder of U.S. citizens; and that a public investigation and trial of Dick Cheney are required. "
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Karl,
You may agree this is all getting kinda tough to follow. For the benefit of those of us who are confused, please bottom-line the allegations/theories/facts/conspiracies into a condensed version even a slow thinker like myself can understand.
Who is responsible for what-when.
I'm not so much interested in HOW you know this, just "what happened" is good enough for me.
Thanks.
Don't send me to any links or other sites, just sumarize things to help me figure out who did what and how.
Thanks Again.
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Ouch!
climber
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Lois, ever since Arlen Spector's one magic bullet theory that proved gravity and ballistics are figments of the imagination, I have had little faith in these commissions of convenience.
It had little more value than the Seinfeld episode where Neumann and Kramer claimed Keith Hernandez spat on them after a Mets game.
Tunnel vision to a preconceived conclusion that protects the right people is of the substance of an anorexic chigger fart.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2006 - 02:37am PT
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The quick and dirty summary will go here via the edit button but you should be aware of this much. It's not too quick a summary cause the list is long and the issue is huge, but you should be able to get an better idea.
Nobody knows the real story. There is disinformation out there, wacko theories out there and limited hang-outs designed to distract. You learn the unanswered questions, consider the possibilties and go from there. Just cause somebody might think that Aliens did it or that Bush is a robot, doesn't mean the GOV is telling the truth.
Peace
Karl
Edit. I'm sure there are good explanations for some of this stuff, but as a whole it's fishy. If you think I was going to spend hours rewriting this for you to not-read, you're high. Read this at the linked source for back-up links and more details.
'9/11' Anomalies from
http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/analysis/anomalies.html
If you can't even click on this one link and take a quick read of some bullet points, I'm not going to waste more time on you.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Facts -
4 aircraft were hijacked.
1 Flew into Tower 1
1 Flew into Tower 2
1 Flew into pentagon.
1 Was shot down by an F16 over Penn.
Osama works at the 7/11 on the corner of Topagana Bl and Chatsworth.
Most of the hijakers had a big F*#king surprise that morning.
Juanito
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WBraun
climber
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Twin Towers were built with a sequenced internal explosion system. This is legally required in areas where buildings are congested in order to ensure symmetrical collapse when the building ages and is condemned and has to be demolished.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Karl,
Thank you.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'd believe you before I'd believe something I read on the Internet. Wait-I read you on the Internet, but you know what I mean.
Happy New Year
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Fact - Not one eyewitness saw a plane crash in the Pentagon!
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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My uncle saw a plane flying at extreme low altitude (less than 500 feet) while he was working in DC, then heard an explosion. He works about a half-mile from the Pentagon. But maybe Juan's right, he didn't SEE it hit the building. He is more of an "Ear-Witness".
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WBraun
climber
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The youngest son of George Herbert Walker Bush, namely Marvin Bush, is seldom mentioned in the press. Marvin was the director of a casualty insurance company with coverage of the World Trade Center, and that the coverage was stopped sometime before 9-11. Also Marvin Bush was a director of a firm that was involved with the security of the World Trade Center.
John P. O'Neill, an expert on counter-terrorism, who about August, 2001, quit the Bureau because the Bush White House blocked him from further investigating Osama bin Laden. Why? Clearly, because O'Neill's probe would lead to the Bush Crime Family, the Carlyle Group, and related banks and entities tied to Osama. O'Neill became the head of Security at the World Trade Center, and about his first day of work was 9-11. He was outside one of the buildings but was somehow lured inside where he perished, CONVENIENTLY.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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When people are shot in the back of the head with high power rifles, it is common knowledge that the head swings back conserving the angular momentum of the bullet and the ethalpy of the brain.
Juanito
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Is not the Oliver Stone going to resolve all the mysteries on 911 very soon?
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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I read the "911 Research" link and all I saw were a bunch of questions with no answers. To think the accepted explanation is all lies takes a leap of faith that makes "Inteligent Design" look like a logical conclusion.
Until someone names names, backed up with more than questions, of who actually did this, I'll have no choice but to believe it was Mohammed Atta and his Boys that hit us on Sept. 11th, 2001, and the Brains behind all this is Ussamma Bin-Ladden (or how ever his name is spelled, I'd vote for calling him something we can all spell, like "Sh -t Head").
I remember Lois saying something about how doctors are trained. When you see hoof-prints and road-apples, you should think "horses" and not "unicorns".
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