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climbrunride
Ice climber
Purgatory, CO
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 4, 2010 - 04:07pm PT
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I'm constantly amazed at seeing comments about people backing up their belay loops. Sometimes they even do it dangerously, like in the Mini Traxion thread.
I don't understand why people don't trust the strongest piece of their harness. Belay loops are made from at least a double wrap of webbing. They are generally stronger than the waistbelt, and no one is talking about backing up the waistbelt. Or the buckle. Or the rope, except with doubles/twins. And they are way stronger than the forces you can generate in a fall.
If your belay loop is so worn out that it might not withstand a fall anymore, then the waistbelt probably is too. Would you climb on a rope in that condition? If you think your gear is weakened to the point of no longer being safe, then REPLACE IT!!!
It's time for some rational thinking, instead of all this knee-jerk, poorly thought out, reactionary thinking which ultimately does not benefit us, our safety, nor climbing in general.
(Now go out there and climb something! And don't post until you actually have climbed. Because talking about climbing without actually doing it sometimes is just lame.)
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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I agree 100%
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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I had a chat with my friend Chad who use to be the sales rep for Misty Mountain Threadworks. i had him look at my belay loop and asked if it should get replaced. He pointed out that though they didn't do quantitative testing of these loops they did do qualitative. Basically what he told me is that my body would bust clean in half before that loop would break.
bomber.
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WBraun
climber
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My last harness before my current one scared the sh'it out of my good friend Majid.
He bought a new one for me and told me I should be scared.
Bless his terrified soul.
Now I'm terrified and will be taking up bowling .....
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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So why aren't we using nylon biners?
there's a phenom in physics - it's called friction.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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What are you doing with your belay loop? Belaying? Rapelling?
You're going to have to attach your Stict Plate ( or whatever ) to your harness with a carabiner or something, so you may as well just do like Cragman suggests and skip the loop.
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enjoimx
Trad climber
SLO Cal
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Todd Skinner died when his belay loop failed. Belay loops fail because of side to side rubbing. Yes I back it up.
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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and in a very very non-morbid way I'd like to see what Todd's loops looked like.
I'll bet they didn't look the one on the harness my buddy Chad tossed back at me.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Todd Skinner died when his belay loop failed. Belay loops fail because of side to side rubbing. Yes I back it up.
Can you cite a few instances were this happened?
I believe that Todd's belay loop was simply worn to sh#t and did not break due to "side to side" rubbing.
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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He had harnesses "in the mail" for a reason.
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Todd’s accident was tragic and unnecessary. From the write-ups, his gear was OLD and Worn. He had daisies/slings girthed to one spot on the belay loop forever (Nylon on Nylon). What caused the problem was also hiding the problem.
I am not afraid of the belay loop. I look at it every time I clip in or tie in. The most bomber part of the system.
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marv
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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I have dual belay loops on my dedicated aiding harness, with daisies girth-hitched into each loop. I'm gonna die.
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cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
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Hey Marty, I've belayed you on this...
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HighTraverse
Social climber
Bay Area
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Right, what MTucker said
I am not afraid of the belay loop. I look at it every time I clip in or tie in. The most bomber part of the system. I look at every piece of gear for a second or two every time I use it. Go right through my whole rack after every couple of outings. Anything questionable gets retired. ALWAYS go all the way along my ropes when I coil them or slake them into a rope bag. One of the things I don't like about these new-fangled rope bags is it can make you lazy about inspecting your rope. Of course lots of things I do like about rope bags. Check my harness every time I put it on before a climb. And I usually think of Todd when I do it.
Now how about those doubled locking biners for tying in the Pair O' Palins?
Were they afraid they'd unscrew them? Or that they're too ditzy to check them? Or is this really a good idea?
cragnshag
And that's why I usually have a good look at my partner's harness before I leave the ground.
Kevlar cord on nylon. Great way to chafe through the nylon.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Don't back it up but i check it regularly.
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cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
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HT,
Kevlar is on the inside. The sheath of the cord is nylon.
This particular harness came with a wimpy belay loop, but a really thick swami. I backed up the belay loop after about 8 years of use and mucho abrasion in chimneys. Swami is still way bomber.
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HighTraverse
Social climber
Bay Area
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cragnshag.
Well, yes, perhaps I was overly concerned. I'm always cautious about even nylon covered kevlar against nylon. The nylon sheath can get worn through.
And I'm not saying you shouldn't climb with that harness but I'd replace it.
Maybe I don't do enough chimneys and offwidths!
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Disaster Master
Social climber
Born in So-Cal, left my soul in far Nor-Cal.
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Yes, when I can I add a Biner next to the loop when belaying.
Skinner's death is one sad example of why. Years ago I asked someone at a climbing co. to make me a harness w/ 2 loops. they looked baffled, but did it.
Why not have two small diameter loops?
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stilltrying
Trad climber
washington indiana
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My son Joshua and I went to Misty Mountian for a tour once while taking a TR instructors course from Burton Mumaw one of the original founders of Misty I believe. They did a destrutive pull test on a harness and then cut the harness away and took the belay loop and stretched it until it broke. Really instilled in my mind how impossible it would be for a climbing fall
to snap one of their loops. Ever since I have only used Misty harnesses because it made a believer out of me It ain't breaking unless it has been abused or is totally worn out.
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