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Gene
Social climber
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Oct 28, 2010 - 06:18pm PT
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[OT]
Mom and Dad liked the previous Pope better.
[/OT]
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Oct 28, 2010 - 06:31pm PT
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Pope Benedict is a brilliant scholar.
He says condoms do NOT help in stopping the spread of AIDS.
Presume he believes, like Nancy Reagan, that just saying NO to "bad things" is sufficient.
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Crodog
Social climber
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Oct 28, 2010 - 06:38pm PT
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Sexual abuse scandal in the Legion of Christ
The sexual abuse scandal in the Legion of Christ involves accusations against Marcial Maciel, leader of this organization for many decades. It has been linked with the series of Catholic sex abuse cases in some Western jurisdictions.
In March, 2010, the Legion of Christ in a communique [1] acknowledged as factual "represensible actions" by Maciel, including sexual abuse. The communique stated that "given the gravity of his faults, we cannot take his person as a model of Christian or priestly life." This occurred, after the Legion spent more than a decade denying allegations and vilifying the victims of abuse.[2]
1956 investigation
Father Marcial Maciel, the leader of the Legion of Christ, was investigated several times. In 1956 the Vatican had him removed as superior and investigated allegations of drug abuse. After interviewing members of the then-small congregation, the Vatican found him innocent, and he was reinstated in February 1959.[3] There are no records of any members reporting sexual abuse at that time. However, since then two seminarians have reported that they lied to investigators and did not report abuse to them because of the vow that Father Maciel had them take, never to speak ill of him.[4]
Accusations since the 1970s
Since the 1970s, Marcial Maciel has been accused twice of having repeatedly sexually abused other congregation members, including young children. Maciel's accusers include a priest, a guidance counselor, a professor, an engineer, a lawyer, and a former priest who became a university professor.[5] The men, all of which were behind the accusations both times, seven Mexicans and two Spaniards, described themselves as former members of a favored group, known as the "apostolic schoolboys." The abuse allegedly occurred over three decades beginning in the 1940s in Spain and Italy, where boys and young men were taken for schooling.[6] The abuse, they said, involved some 30 boys and young men and extended over at least three decades.
Nine different accusers
Of the nine men making the accusations, one subsequently retracted his story, claiming it had been a fabrication intended to damage the Legion.[5] The other eight continue to maintain these allegations. Fr. Maciel and the organization originally denied the accusations. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), led by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (who is now Pope Benedict XVI), examined the allegations.
Stepping down as leader
Shortly after some media reported the reopening of the investigation in late 2004, Fr. Maciel stepped down as General Director of the Legion.[7]
Reopening the case
Later, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, led by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, examined the allegations, reopening the investigation against Maciel shortly before Maciel resigned the General Directorship of the Legion. According to the ReGain organization, as many as 24 men came forward with accusations of sexual abuse against him. Maciel and the Legion continued to deny the accusations until his death in 2008.[8]
Retirement and penitence
On May 19, 2006 the Vatican published a communique for press, instructing Maciel to retire to a life of "prayer and penitence".[9]
The reaction of the Legion was summarized by Jim Fair, the US spokesman of the Legion of Christ as a persecution, while the Legion proclaimed Maciel's innocence. "Fair has absolutely no doubt that Father Maciel is innocent of accusations that he sexually abused seminarians decades ago. Any statements to the contrary, he said, amount to persecution of a holy man – the kind of persecution Jesus referred to in the Sermon on the Mount when he said, 'Blessed are those who hate and persecute you for holiness' sake; you shall see God.'"[10]
Fathering a child
On 2009 February 3 the New York Times reported: "The Legionaries of Christ, an influential Roman Catholic religious order, have been shaken by new revelations that their founder, who died a year ago, had an affair with a woman and fathered a daughter just as he and his thriving conservative order were winning the acclaim of Pope John Paul II."[11] This has been confirmed by the Legion of Christ[12].
According to Archbishop Thomas Collins of Toronto, the Legion also admitted to gross misuse of funds by Maciel.[13] Alvaro Corcuera and Thomas Williams have also stated that, given the revelations about the immoral life led by the founder, it is probable that past accusations of sexual abuse be true.[14]
The Rev. Fr. Thomas V. Berg LC, Executive Director of the Westchester Institute for Ethics and the Human Person, has formally apologized to the victims of Fr. Maciel, "In shock, sorrow, and with a humbled spirit, I want to express my deepest sorrow for anyone who, in any way, has been hurt by the moral failings of Fr. Maciel." ”[15]
A few weeks after the scandal broke, Fr. Berg left the Legion of Christ to become a diocesan priest, transferring the Westchester Institute to the Archdiocese of New York.[16]
On September 3, 2009, an apology on behalf of the Legion was made by Fr. Julio Marti and Fr. Scott Reilly, (both territorial directors of the Legion in the US northeast), "We are deeply saddened and sorry, and we sincerely ask for forgiveness from God and from those who have been hurt through this.” We also regret that our inability to detect, and thus accept and remedy, Father Maciel’s failings has caused even more suffering."[17]
Civil suit on behalf of six children
In July 2009, Mexican media reported that an attorney, José Bonilla, will represent three of a possible total of six of Maciel's children in a civil suit to recover Maciel's estate. The lawyer claims that there are several properties in Mexico and around the world which Maciel owned in his own name.[18][19]
Media in Spain had similarly reported an interview with a woman who had a child with Maciel over 20 years ago and now lives in a luxury apartment in Madrid which Maciel purchased for her. The woman, Norma Hilda Baños, insinuates that she was abused by Maciel as a minor and later was impregnated by him and she bore him a daughter, Norma Hilda Rivas.[20] At least one source claims that Rivas is an alias that Maciel used during his life.[21]
Reaction of archbishop O'Brien
In the wake of these affairs, Baltimore Archbishop Edwin O'Brien told his archdiocesan newspaper that the order must offer "full disclosure of [Maciel's] activities and those who are complicit in them, or knew of them, and of those who are still refusing to offer disclosure," adding that the order's finances should also be subject to "objective scrutiny." He called Maciel "a man with an entrepreneurial genius who, by systematic deception and duplicity, used our faith to manipulate others for his own selfish ends," and further criticized the "good deal of secrecy in [Maciel's] own life...[and] in the structures he created." The Archbishop welcomed the Vatican's decision in the following March to conduct an apostolic visitation of the Legionaries, and said that the order's abolition "should be on the table."[22]
Apostolic visitation
The Vatican has ordered an apostolic visitation of the institutions of the Legionaries of Christ following disclosures of sexual impropriety by the order's late founder, Marcial Maciel Degollado. The announcement of the unusual investigation was posted on the Web site of the Legionaries of Christ on March 31, 2009 along with the text of a letter informing the Legionaries of the pope's decision.[23]
On June 27, 2009, according to Vatican commentator Sandro Magister, Vatican authorities have named five bishops from five different countries, each one in charge of investigating the Legionaries in a particular part of the world. Their first report is due in the fall of 2009:
Ricardo Watti Urquidi [1], Bishop of Tepic, Mexico, in charge of Mexico and Central America, where the Legion has 44 houses, 250 priests and 115-120 religious seminarians; Charles J. Chaput, Archbishop of Denver, in charge of the United States and Canada, where the Legion has 24 houses, 130 priests and 260 religious seminarians; Giuseppe Versaldi, Bishop of Alessandria, in charge of Italy, Israel, the Philippines, and South Korea, where the Legion has 16 houses, 200 priests and 420 religious seminarians. (in Italy 13, 168 and 418 respectively); Ricardo Ezzati Andrello [2], Archbishop of Concepción, Chile, in charge of Chile, Argentina, Colombia, Brazil and Venezuela, where the Legion has 20 houses, 122 priests and 122 religious seminarians; Ricardo Blázquez Pérez, Bishop of Bilbao, Spain, in charge of Spain, France, Germany, Switzerland, Ireland, Holland, Poland, Austria and Hungary, where the Legion has 20 houses, 105 priest, and 160 religious seminarians[24][25].
The investigation is being undertaken by the Vatican department that oversees religious congregations of women and men which is presently headed by Cardinal Rode. Rode is a close friend of the Legion of Christ and frequently receives gifts from the Legion, both solicited and unsolicited. The Legion has also paid for some of his holidays. For references see National Catholic Reporter of Kansas, passim.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Oct 28, 2010 - 06:57pm PT
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no offense to catholics, but the pope is a politician like the rest of them...
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Oct 28, 2010 - 08:11pm PT
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crux (pardon the expression) o' the matter is "given the existence of gravity".
hawking is one of many very intelligent scientists, but he doesn't have much insight into the big, important question. here's the deal, stephen. people won't "give" you the existence of gravity. if you can't explain it, you haven't explained everything.
no comment on the current obscenity they call "pope".
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Oct 28, 2010 - 11:34pm PT
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hawking is one of many very intelligent scientists, but he doesn't have much insight into the big, important question. here's the deal, stephen. people won't "give" you the existence of gravity. if you can't explain it, you haven't explained everything.
I agree.
...like we've been waiting for just two human beings to make a determination whether or not the universe "needs God" for its creation?
..as if only they have the enlightened perspective to decide and dictate the answer.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Oct 28, 2010 - 11:40pm PT
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One "big important question" is where we came from. And the sciences have done a splendid job answering it. H. sapiens derived from a long line of primates, and before that, a long line of mammals...
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Oct 28, 2010 - 11:51pm PT
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...Pontifical Academy of Sciences...
One of the better oxymorons of all time.
Curt
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Oct 29, 2010 - 12:12am PT
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Norton...the pope was talking about the condums that the priests were using on the altar boys not protecting against aids...
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Ricardo Cabeza
climber
All Over.
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Oct 29, 2010 - 12:17am PT
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They probably believe the same things to be true, only haven't found the link.
Seems like the truth lies in the micro, not the macro.
Maybe not, what do I know?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 29, 2010 - 12:47am PT
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Tony writes (and Jennie agrees):
people won't "give" you the existence of gravity. if you can't explain it, you haven't explained everything.
what exactly to you mean by that?
General Relativity is used to calculate the many effects of gravity. It has a huge range of applicability, it makes accurate, precise predictions of many physical phenomena.
There are many interesting issues regarding gravity, I don't think you can state that "we don't know about gravity." You have to be more nuanced in your criticism than that. We know more about gravity than about many other things... and verified our knowledge by experiment.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Oct 29, 2010 - 12:51am PT
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Pope vs Hawking.
Man, that's a tough call. Wheelchair dude vs. old guy in a dress.
I say they're pretty evenly matched, in the sense that neither of them could punch his way out of a wet paper bag, so this is a matchup that could go the full fifteen rounds -- except for one thing: Neither of them could last even one round.
So I'm giving it to Hawking on the grounds that the pope probably won't even show up for fear of being arrested for his part in the child-molestation ring commonly known as the catholic priesthood.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 29, 2010 - 12:55am PT
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But could Joe (a kraut) outdrink Steve (a limey)? That might be a fair contest, unless one can get a DUI in a wheelchair.
Playing advocatus diaboli for a moment, I hope that Ed will enlighten us as to what causes gravity.
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
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Oct 29, 2010 - 12:57am PT
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I'd check it out. Into The Octagon with them!
THIS SUNDAY, ON PAY-PER-VIEW!
Or not. ;-)
BTW, Gravity is what makes climbing interesting. Right?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 29, 2010 - 12:59am PT
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"Domini domini, the egg came first."
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Oct 29, 2010 - 01:51am PT
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I hope that Ed will enlighten us as to what causes gravity.
yaas--the big question is not how gravity works, but why we have it at all, or how it came about. if you just want to "accept" it, fine--but you haven't explained it then. if you want to be the last word in cosmology you have to explain everything. be careful about calling it a "given", because the next question will be "given by whom".
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 29, 2010 - 02:25am PT
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Very intelligent statement Tony.
Yes, very intelligent .....
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nutjob
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Oct 29, 2010 - 02:37am PT
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Who or what created gravity? If we can ever answer that, then we are faced with the question: who or want created the thing that created gravity?
It's like delving into the patterns locked in successive magnifications of the mandelbrot set... it's all very beautiful, and the more we learn the more we are tempted to keep exploring further, and perhaps we learn things that become useful in our daily lives... but I think there is no end.
At some point we must find peace and meaning where we can. For some that is a short path that leads simply to "god." For others it is the eternal quest to learn more and enjoy the exploration wherever that leads.
The pope is openly acknowledging the validity and value of science in the world. To the extent one can make a generalization, scientists still act a bit childish and rebellious trying to invalidate "god" as a source of meaning in people's lives. Maybe scientists should stop trying to prove that god does not exist or need to exist, and spend more time figuring out how to travel faster than the speed of light, how to reversibly convert mass to energy or an information stream that can be transported, how to create super-dense data storage to accommodate the crazy amount of information stored in a human being down to the electron and whatever-on states.
In short, let science do what science does well (form testable hypotheses and refine them into theories that withstand testing) and let organized religion do what religion does well (give people who need it, an anchor of meaning in life, an elevator for the soul, and a means for connecting with our fellow humans in a deeply rewarding way- and no I'm not talking about connecting the priestly glans to little boy cavities).
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 29, 2010 - 02:43am PT
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Yes
Modern science good system.
Just keep guessing while the real answer is staring you straight in your face all along.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 29, 2010 - 03:48am PT
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MH (or is it AD now?) - mass (and energy) causes gravity
that's probably not the question you wanted to ask, but go ahead and ask it...
Tony, can you make a distinction, really, on your way to understanding something you get to know it very well...
... gravity is a property of the universe. That is not a trivial statement... one needs three things: special relativity, the equivalence principle and the fact that field theory is local, from that come general relativity and thus, gravity.
Each of these three components are statements about space-time. One might rightly ask, then, why does space-time have these properties, how does it get them? The answer to that question is a work in progress...
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