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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 24, 2010 - 06:26pm PT
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I'm wicked ignorant about this stuff. I have photographs posted on the internet. Backcountry.com took one, and used it in their blog. A simple question: Is that legal?
http://thegoat.backcountry.com/2010/09/24/the-next-great-rock-climber/
Is a copyright automatically assigned to original works? How does this work, from those who are in the know?
I don't mind significantly, I just asked them to provide a reference.
Thanks,
Josh
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The Alpine
Big Wall climber
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Sep 24, 2010 - 06:28pm PT
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Hell no thats not legal. Especially when its committed by a commercial enterprise.
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2010 - 06:31pm PT
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It is my rockclimbing.com profile picture. Do I lose rights by posting it on the internet?
Josh
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The Alpine
Big Wall climber
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Sep 24, 2010 - 06:34pm PT
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You lose no rights. A quick check of my pricing calculator yields these results:
So this is on their blog(editorial) but really its commercial use.
When priced as editorial running for 1 year at that small size its about $150.
Switch that to what it really is (advertising/commercial use) and the price jumps to $720.
Tell them they're stealing. And send them an invoice for whichever one you want to pursue.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Sep 24, 2010 - 06:37pm PT
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Gotta read the fine print for the site.
I think you do loose all the rights on RC n00b
That's why I never posted anything more than links there.
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Ain't no flatlander
climber
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Sep 24, 2010 - 06:37pm PT
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No. RC.com gets to use stuff posted there for nearly anything they wish for their purposes. But they don't own the copyright and cannot give away your stuff. BC.com owes you money for usage.
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The Alpine
Big Wall climber
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Sep 24, 2010 - 06:40pm PT
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From rc.com's TOS:
(H) By publishing or submitting any content including, articles, stories, postings and photographs to any part of Rockclimbing.com you give permission that such content may be used at the sole discretion of Rockclimbing.com anywhere else on the site, for any purpose, in its original or edited form, at any time in the future. Content will not be sold without permission of the original author or owner.
PS - Take a screen capture. And document the file path - they downloaded it and then uploaded it onto their servers. Not just an embed.
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2010 - 06:43pm PT
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I have the screen capture. I've never deal with this before. I thought it was stealing, but wasn't sure. Thanks for the info. I'm wondering, should I just send them an e-mail asking for compensation? I don't want to be greedy, but they're the one breaking the law...
Josh
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The Alpine
Big Wall climber
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Sep 24, 2010 - 06:48pm PT
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More than likely they'll be dicks about it. But ya, don't give in. Even if they say they'll take it down - they still used it and owe you.
Do you have an original raw file of this image?
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2010 - 06:53pm PT
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Yes, I have the original somewhere on my laptop at home. Thanks for all the information! Anything else I should know? I think I'm going to ask for a gift card for the photographer and myself.
Josh
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The Alpine
Big Wall climber
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Sep 24, 2010 - 06:56pm PT
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Oh you're not the photographer?
Then you have no rights.
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2010 - 06:59pm PT
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OK, then Nate has the rights. I already included him on the e-mail to BC.com. :)
Josh
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Sep 24, 2010 - 07:09pm PT
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This one of mine shows up in some different places, here's an example:
http://atlasobscura.com/place/blythe-intaglios
I know it's mine because my Dog is in it! ( left-edge )
This one credits my Flickr page, so I won't be grumbling about it any.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Sep 24, 2010 - 07:29pm PT
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I had a guy hijack a couple of my photos off of rc.com and post them up as his own on summitpost. Not quite as blatant or commercially annoying as what you got with bc.com, but still...wtf? I posted up a comment under the photos saying it wasn't right to hijack someone's photos like that and some doof off of summitpost (not the hijacker) wanted to argue with me about whether the photo was actually mine or not.
I cited the date, the location, the person in the photo, the route, the pitch, etc. The challenger finally gave up. I guess he was of the wacky opinion that someone might travel the internet laying claim to other people's photos just to start fight or something. Bizzare.
Good luck to ya! Backcountry.com is a complete a-hole for using a photo for their site that they don't have permission to use.
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
Arkansas, I suppose
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Sep 24, 2010 - 07:36pm PT
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Hey Chaz, is that a kite photo?
Nice shot man.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 24, 2010 - 07:39pm PT
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First off, you need to embed your ID in the photo.
Now, try to keep in mind the two requisite elements of a legal contract, a meeting of the minds and an exchange of good and valuable consideration.
If you don't have both then you don't have a contract.
No contract; no claim.
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Sep 24, 2010 - 08:31pm PT
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You do not have the rights as the photographer (since you didn't take the picture), but you have rights to your likeness being used in an advertisement.
That is assuming you didn't sign away those rights when you said "yes" to the agreement.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Sep 24, 2010 - 10:26pm PT
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I'm not a lawyer but as a graphic designer I know my copyright laws pretty darn well. A photo is owned by the photographer. Others need permission or exchange and contract. To take a matter to court though, you need evidence.
I suggest that BC.com is not to blame but the freelance who sold them that article. They are nice people. If you can show evidence of the no-no I'll bet you could get a nice bit of gear. Especially if you let them use the photo too.
I agree with Alpine's numbers above as far as value.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Sep 24, 2010 - 11:19pm PT
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Don't send an invoice. If it goes to court you will be limited to receiving only the amount invoinced. Instead send a settlement offer, preferably on your lawyers letterhead. Usually I offer to settle for 4X the market price of the usage had they licensed it. Sometimes I'll negotiate down to 2x, but almost never settle for market price. That would be like stealing then getting caught and offering to pay the listed price without incurring a penalty. If you could steal all the time without a penalty for getting caught, why bother to ever buy anything? Know what I'm saying? Send a settlement offer, and that way you can be fairly compensated and also get any lawyers fees back if it goes to court. This assumes that you own the image.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Sep 25, 2010 - 12:13am PT
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Ron, the claim is infringement, not breach of contract.
Agreed on the above posts otherwise. It's one thing to have the climbing community make a mistake about using another person's image but outright claiming it as your own or using it commercially without consent is just horsesh#t. Pursue, bc.com shouldn't hire marketing or internet jug heads that infringe, if in fact bc did do this thing.
I guess that's why I don't like Supertopos upload feature cuz it takes folks that don't understand the internet or copyright and easily makes them contributory infringers?
Anyone practice in copyright law regularly have an opinion about the current state of fair use doctrine or exceptions?
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